Our Souls Are Whole With Michelle Irene

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Michelle Irene. I'm looking forward to our conversation. Today we spoke a couple of months ago, great conversation. You introduced me to a new idea of spiritual psychology which sounds kind of right up my street. But maybe we'll get onto that in a bit.

[00:00:29] But ladies and gentlemen, Michelle is an adoptee. It feels like we haven't had many adoptees on for a while. It's been mainly adoption professionals and adoptive mums and stuff. So looking forward to the conversation with you today, Michelle. And you can't see this, listeners clearly, but she's got these fantastic wings behind her. Do you call them wings?

[00:00:57] Michelle Irene, I do. Yeah, they're my angel wings. They're my guardians, my spirit guides. Michelle Irene, Have you ever seen the Killers? Michelle Irene, No. Michelle Irene, No, I have not. Michelle Irene, No, I have not. Michelle Irene, He used to wear like wings on certain occasions. I don't know if he still does it to me. You've heard of the band, all right? You've heard of the Killers. Michelle Irene, I have not.

[00:01:26] Michelle Irene, No, I have not. Michelle Irene, No, I have not. Oh, my good Lord. Michelle Irene, Okay. Michelle Irene, How have I not? Michelle Irene, I don't know. So they're an American brand. He's... Michelle Irene, Really? Michelle Irene, Yeah, yeah. Brandon Flowers is the lead singer. He's from Las Vegas, I think. Michelle Irene, Okay. Michelle Irene, Okay. Michelle Irene, Okay. Michelle Irene, They've been going quite a while. One of their, I don't know, probably six, seven albums, something like that.

[00:01:56] Michelle Irene, The funniest thing is, so that big song is a song called Mr. Brightside. Michelle Irene, I'm coming out of my town. Michelle Irene, I'm going to have to look them up. No, I don't. Wow.

[00:02:11] Michelle Irene, A bit of a diversion. But I'm getting around to a point. So everybody says, you know, you're going to do 10,000 hours. Right? Well, then, Mr. Brightside was the first song that Brandon ever wrote, I believe. And they've released. And it's still their number one song. So if you go on Spotify, I think it's way bigger. Yeah. So there we go with wings. Right? So adoptee. Michelle's there.

[00:02:39] Michelle Irene, She's there. So you know what? And I think that's a really important thing. So I thought we could start from that point. Why did you call the book that? uh well honestly the title of the book kind of morphed um it started off as the adoption codes

[00:03:06] and um as i started writing the book itself i realized it was the adoption codes themselves are something that um are are accessible to anybody it's not about being being adopted um and then it morphed into orphaned in silence because a lot of my clients have always um i shouldn't say always but feel they have been silenced throughout their lives and so they feel

[00:03:36] alone um and then as i was working with Hay House through their entrepreneurship program um we realized this book was much more than what i thought it was going to be and it's really for remembering who you are beyond the roles the roots and the rules which is the subtitle and that's like

[00:04:00] exactly what it is we forget who we are and as adoptees i feel or i've seen so many people say they don't know who they are and if they had their original birth certificate and all their records that they would know their true identity and true identity is something that we build and feel within ourselves it's not something we're going to find outside of ourselves so even after you find

[00:04:29] all your records or partial records or meet your your birth parents um there's still this i realized for me nothing within me changed when i received that information i still was who i was and our souls come here for a purpose and that's part of our purpose is recognizing who we are on a

[00:04:57] spiritual level wow there's so many places to go there um i'm gonna i'm gonna start with that so i know that like 70 percent of the listeners are from the states i know that 80 percent of them are women between the ages of 40 and 60 but i don't know the extent to which they are adoptees or adoptive parents or adoption forrestrials or all of those three things right so i'm gonna i'm gonna start with a question

[00:05:26] that for any adoptive parents listening right so you you you you talked about being uh orphaned in orphaned in silence and uh and alone to what extent do you think that's because our generation of adoptees

[00:05:50] often struggled emotionally and our parents our adoptive parents didn't know that there was such a thing as the primal one right to what extent is is that do you see that as a factor i do i i really see that as

[00:06:17] a factor because psychologically there's so much going on inside of us as a human being and if those wounds aren't attended to and understood all the love in the world that you are receiving from your parents or lack thereof is not going to fulfill that wound that wound is only something that you can heal nobody else can do that for you

[00:06:46] and it's it's really about recognizing the wound and where it comes from and are you going to allow that wound to lead you throughout your life or are you going to change it

[00:07:00] do you uh thank you um do you do you believe the soul can be wounded or do you believe the spirit can be wounded do you see a difference i do see a difference um i believe the soul is whole

[00:07:26] i do believe the spirit could be wounded okay um that's why recognizing who you are at your core um understanding your value without anybody else around who are you when nobody else is looking

[00:07:49] that that that comes from the soul and do you like that person do you like who you are without anybody else around without all the material things without without the children without the grandchildren without all of it who are you because at the end of the day when we close our eyes at night it's it's us

[00:08:14] it's ourselves it's it's me myself and i and who am i and do i like that so if if we identify a soul and the soul is whole i like a bit of rhyming yeah i like it too then we're good right

[00:08:40] yeah this has been the shortest this has been the shortest interview i've ever done we're done we're good we're good the soul is whole yeah if if we're the soul so but if we this is is what you were saying earlier on then um if we connect with our birth parents

[00:09:08] but don't connect with our soul then we're never going to be whole is that what you say correct that is my belief we're looking for the wrong identity we're looking for identity in all the wrong places and so we should be looking in the soul place we should be looking in the soul place the

[00:09:30] soul self the soul self yeah okay well i'm glad that you mentioned soul and i'm glad that i asked i asked the spirit question as well because different people i i use different well i don't i use different terminology in my head um so i i don't talk about soul but uh but i talk i talk i believe in in spirit

[00:10:00] but i believe that spirit is whole okay so i'm i'm just gonna i don't want to uh am i getting i'm i'm becoming too pedantic here michelle no no okay cool go for it um so i i'm i'm just gonna say that if you think the soul is whole and i and i call what is whole spirit the one and the same we're

[00:10:24] good to go we're not gonna fall out by because you used it right so we're we're looking for identity in the wrong places and so are we looking for healing in the wrong places as well then possibly so people because people talk about this people talk a lot about reunion and not having any

[00:10:50] expectations on reunion right so that's the other thing if they have no expectations they're lying you can say yeah exactly you have them but but it's a theoretical thing right sure sure you know i mean right so we don't know how the we don't know how the the search and reunion stories is is gonna go we don't know how that's gonna pan out right um something's coming to something's coming to my mind

[00:11:16] right right now of a really important meeting i had like an intake meeting before i went on a course 19 years ago and i i told the so i met with the two people that were going to run the retreat

[00:11:39] and i asked them about i shared a bit about my life my business sh1t and my adoption sh1t and i asked them you know should i go down the re you know should i go down the reunion path you know

[00:11:59] not uh we're just talking around that um and and and uh liz and the the lady who's now married to the guy that she she ran runs the retreats with she said no so what she was doing there was and and i can't remember why she said it i can't remember what rationale she'd put behind it

[00:12:28] but i'm guessing what where she was coming from her rationale was don't go don't go looking for reunion to make you whole because you don't know how it's going to turn you don't know how it's going to turn out so don't place all your bets

[00:12:51] on on black because it's only a 50 50 chance right yeah thousand percent yeah so that's what we're saying to the listeners is go within rather than going outside don't don't go

[00:13:17] outside don't go into the into into the birth family world don't go into the world to find your wholeness to find your soul to find your identity to find your essence to find your core to find where you fit in to find where you fit in

[00:13:38] go within go within there's a there was an adoptee guy who was i think he some people described him as a theosopher so it's a mixture of theology and

[00:14:00] um and philosophy a guy a guy called sydney banks and he he he didn't do any real work within the adoption space it was for for humanity rather than for for us as adoptee but he he himself was an adoptee

[00:14:22] and he he used to say scottish guy that emigrated to the west coast um i think it was Salt Spring Island british columbia so uh to canada um and he says he used to say i always tell people to go within but they never do

[00:14:47] it's terrifying to go within for some people for most people um i find you know let me backtrack to your earlier question on whether our soul is whole our soul is whole however it holds all of our emotions and our memories and our reactions and our celebrations and our

[00:15:14] uh defeats you know it holds all of that and that's what allows us to feel and so the sadness or the depression or the lack thereof you know that community that you seek or what have you it's coming from a space within here because you're harvesting all of the memories and

[00:15:40] you remember things from being in the womb of your mother you carry some of her feelings and some of her emotions and whatever she was going through when she was pregnant with you and so think about you know the my birth grandmother told my mother she had to go away to have me because it was shameful that she

[00:16:09] wasn't married so here she is feeling ashamed going away with eight other girls to a home and talking back and forth on whether or not to keep their child and then my mother was told that if you come home come home alone because we can't have that child born out of wedlock what would the

[00:16:36] church think what would the community think so there was this fear and this shame placed on her and she's carrying this as she's pregnant with me right and so she has to make a decision do i keep her and try to live on my own or do i go back home so obviously she puts me up for adoption she never sees me she goes back home her mom allows her to talk about the experience for one week and then says we never

[00:17:03] speak of this anymore like right it's just oh gut punch i i can't imagine having to live with those feelings but i harvested some of those emotions within me and through my healing journey i've recognized some of the things that i've carried weren't mine to carry i was carrying some of her emotions with me

[00:17:32] through my journey yeah have you heard of um a book called uh what was it called power versus force if you had a book called power versus force um by write that one down a guy called uh david hawkins i think and

[00:17:58] said banks that i mentioned earlier on uh he's an adoptee and he's not around anymore this guy david hawkins isn't around anymore he's david hawkins big contribution to to the world was creating a scale of human consciousness consciousness which is from naught to a thousand and he calibrated using kinesiology

[00:18:29] so somatic stuff body stuff right um and the body doesn't lie so people say no you're joking yeah score too body keeps the score um yeah that always scares me that title we'll come back to that in a minute um so the scale is from naught to a thousand anything below 200 is damaging

[00:18:56] to life anything above 200 is life affirming and he he's calibrated all sorts of different things from the wag of a dog's tail to jesus the buddha and krishna or you know so they the wag of a dog's tail is about 300 i think um unconditional love is 350 maybe the united states marines calibrated at 180

[00:19:27] which is the level of pride uh zero is dead guess what shame is about a zero a one 20 20 yeah yeah it's the lowest it's lowest it's the lowest emotion i think anger is like 75 so you think about like people being propelled by anger to demonstrate

[00:19:55] for example rather than being locked away in in in shame you know shame keeps you quiet doesn't it keeps you um it keeps you um it keeps yourself to yourself right um so yeah shame is shame is is 20 and you know

[00:20:24] i think that's one of the there therein lies part of the nub you know people talk about suicidality and and uh and adoptees and and shame clearly is a a driver of in extreme cases of of uh people taking their own lives um one of my things that's coming to me

[00:20:52] um recently about this so about shame um about our thoughts about shame and shame from our birth mothers because as as you explained it it landed for me

[00:21:15] in a different way than it's landed for me before i felt it more yeah then i felt it before because my birth mother was in there similar circumstances perhaps i never spoke to her so i i don't know um but

[00:21:39] i would get the gist she wasn't put under quite as much pressure as your birth mother so we we we talk about this inherited shame and um what do other people call it um generational trauma that we inherit we think of the body keeps the score

[00:22:05] and that oh that title really frightens me and i've got this i've got this take on these these these emotions that the the more we talk about that stuff the bigger it's going to get

[00:22:34] the more i talk about shame the more i focus on shame the bigger it's going to get because what we focus on gets bigger right absolutely a lot of attraction yeah um and you know people say oh in not this isn't an adoptee thing right this is a human thing right oh you're making a mountain out of the molehill right and then other people say you're you're making a molehill out of a mountain right

[00:23:01] you're underestimating this thing right but as adoptees we we don't know whether it's a mountain or a molehill we don't but but but we can talk ourselves into we can read a book like the primal wound and we can like the body keeps the score and our and our creativity can take over and make that

[00:23:30] shit bigger right but what if from a spiritual perspective we look at the shame or we look at the anger as something sacred as an opportunity to alchemize it into something better

[00:23:53] what is that shame gifting us what is it showing us what is that anger showing you what is it telling you right anger is something when we're off kilter when we're off balance when we're disconnected disconnected and what are we most disconnected from our soul self the truth of who we are the essence of

[00:24:22] our being our light my light your light everybody else's light is the same light if we strip away the body we strip away the pain we strip away everything that we know what are we left with we're left with the soul's light so let's go back to that let's go back to the beginning of when your soul's light was created

[00:24:47] and pure and bright and beautiful and loving let's find that again why let the anger lead us in life why let the shame be our leader lead your own life use it and turn it into something better

[00:25:08] and understand that you were given this opportunity i know they say as adoptees you were chosen and i loved that as a child i thought i was so damn special because i was chosen and but when i was writing this book i was chosen for something much greater and i think every adoptee in this world was chosen for something

[00:25:36] much greater than we realize we have the opportunity to not only heal ourselves but to heal our biological lineage and to heal our adoptive lineage and i know this is like a little maybe too far out in left field for people but as i was writing the book i started to recognize these divine connections between

[00:26:00] my biological family and my adoptive family who never met never met but there's all this intertwining of interconnectivity and we are a part of two lineages this is why it hurts more this is why we feel more this is

[00:26:20] why we're more sensitive why we're more angry why you know why we just we're chosen and so it's up to you do you choose this opportunity that's been gifted to you from divine source whatever that divine source might be for you for me it's god god has given me this opportunity to not only help heal

[00:26:47] the lineages but to see life as so much more so much more than what it is it's bigger than me like i am just a little star in the sky a little star of light it's an opportunity

[00:27:10] so uh first off the lady that i referred to earlier on uh liz um who was the one that said look within rather than going to you but uh she she knows that some people don't like the word god and she just said well just call it humpty then humpty humpty yeah like humpty dumpty humpty dumpty right just call it

[00:27:37] humpty right so if if god if god uh upsets your listeners uh just just call it just call it humpty humpty um second thing was as you were explaining it a kind of a uh the the metaphor that came to my

[00:28:00] mind was rumble strips right so do you know what rumble strips are yes yeah okay so it is so the the anger or the insecurity or you know whatever the emotion that we're feeling that we don't want to feel right that's a rumble strip it's telling us that we're going off course and it's trying to point us

[00:28:26] back to our soul self like yeah you you you're kind of nodding along is that what part it was that what you one of the things that you were getting at yeah sure i mean when we are angry we're disconnected we're disconnected from something um that's why we're angry like we've like totally unplugged from

[00:28:50] our true essence from our true beliefs from our core values and so it doesn't feel good right that's that's your that's your first red flag all right this is not feeling good why am i angry and more importantly am i really angry at this current situation or am i angry on a deeper level because i believe anger builds upon it's like a fishing story right the fisherman goes out and he

[00:29:20] catches a fish and it's you know eight inches long by the time you know six years come around it was a shark do you know what i mean like the story the fish just keeps growing and growing and growing and we continue to grow our stories that we tell ourselves we continue to add to that story and our brain consciously recognizes the story the last time we told it and so yeah problem becomes bigger and bigger

[00:29:47] and bigger because we just keep fueling it and that's what i was getting at with the mountain molehill thing yeah i was getting at it you know the so if we go into uh if we're going to so the the the the one that always comes to me on this is if we go to a facebook group right if we go into a facebook

[00:30:09] group or we go into a group with uh that isn't led right then we're all going to trauma dump and we're all we're all we're all we're focusing on is uh trauma and it's getting bigger like the fish that you you you're getting the fish is getting bigger so that would be my that would be one of my concerns

[00:30:38] around that um for sure you know and i have to interrupt you for a second there um speaking of those groups um when i was writing the book of course i joined joined a lot of groups and never even dawned on me before to join an adoption group or an adoptee group or what have you but i thought you know what i want to kind of learn more about how other people might feel in their um in their life and there was

[00:31:06] so much anger in some of these groups that i started to think oh my gosh should i be should i be angry angry like am i missing something and then i started to get angry i really started to gain anger on a different level and i was like okay this is not healthy like this but then everyone's like

[00:31:31] you know well you're just coming out of the fog and it's no i'm not really no like don't they want to propel their anger onto you and that's how they gain more power and we see that in the world right now right hurt people hurt people if we're hurt we gain more power by hurting somebody else but we gain just as much power if we're loving and we love somebody else

[00:32:00] but it's also not about gaining power it's about coming back to your soul self staying in your lane staying in your circle and being true to who you are yeah so the power versus force book how power would be uh more more anger more control yeah it's not no they were around force would be more

[00:32:28] anger more control power would be love yeah but you you decide right you decide where your power is going to be you saw the choice you you saw you saw you saw you mean yeah but if you don't know that you're

[00:32:53] the soul you're going to think you're the apparently separate self right you're going to think you're the ego you're going to yeah i mean the first step is to believe that you are a soul to believe that you have a soul i mean that's the first step some people don't truly believe in that or they haven't stopped long enough to truly think about it and to go within to see what is this yeah

[00:33:21] so um we said earlier on about uh humperty rather than god does there's another uh silly idea that just popped into my head there was this uh cartoon cartoon series in the in the uk in the 70s and the 80s

[00:33:43] and it was about a a a group of furry creatures made up for the called called the wambles and uh they lived they lived underneath wimbledon common in london and they were eco they were eco warriors right they okay they they turned they turned rubbish into into useful they

[00:34:13] were upcyclers right um and they had a they had a lots of songs out right these cartoon characters animated kind of characters uh one of them was remember you're a womble so i was thinking like remember you're a soul yeah remember and that's what the book's all about it's about

[00:34:40] just shifting your perspective to look at life in a different way just take that even if it's just for a split second you know see that light in the situation shift your perspective look at life in a new way and allow yourself to be led by something greater than yourself we we think we're in control we are not we are not in control what we're in control of is how we feel and how we project

[00:35:09] and how we react and the actions that we take that's what we're in control of but isn't the amount the most profound shift in perspective a shift in in our identity doesn't everything flow from that

[00:35:35] yeah from our soul identity from our from our soul yeah not who not who we think we're supposed to be not the roles that we play not the rules that we have to follow but who are we beyond all of that

[00:35:53] what makes you happy what lights you up so you mentioned earlier on that uh soul contains everything mm-hmm i think you said yeah words that right yeah it's like your computer it's like your hard drive

[00:36:15] it's got everything yeah so i see it slightly different so so so my metaphor that the method that the thriving adoptees logo is a diamond right and that's intentional because it's a direct counter to how many uh how many adoptees feel

[00:36:44] the hangover for the hangover of uh adoption trauma for many middle-aged adoptees uh and and younger i think sometimes is a trash can right we think that we're trash we think we're not good enough right so not good enough right she so we're not we're not good enough so there's something wrong with us or or some or an anger will reflect that out right so i when when i came out of the fork it was

[00:37:12] she my birth mother she didn't love me enough to keep me yeah like so i'm projecting it on her rather than thinking i'm not good enough but it's it's one of the same thing is the two two sides of the same coin so the thriving adoptees logo as a diamond is a direct counter

[00:37:34] to that mistaken identity that many many adoptees have and many human beings have as well right yeah i like that mistaken identity that's good yeah um but if everybody else is mistaken our identity then we're gonna follow the crowd and mistake our identity too right absolutely

[00:37:59] because we're followers because we're followers well because we're followers and because we're sponges yeah we suck up all that um so for me the diamond and the soul are interchangeable well the synonyms yeah the diamond is the soul and the soul is the diamond diamond is light right

[00:38:20] that's not right yeah so i i would see our feelings and our thoughts and our beliefs as continuing the diamond metaphor as layers of rock and dirt that we need to blast through through a process of diamond mining you know when you mine for diamonds you've got to dig some holes put

[00:38:50] some dynamite in kind of blast through right so i i would but for me you know just stick with feelings and and i uh yeah so feelings so think of your typical trauma feelings anger insecurity and fear

[00:39:10] and share so they're layers but they're layers that hide the diamond they're they're not nothing could get

[00:39:26] inside the diamond so yeah so the diamond is strong the diamond is strong and it's clear and it's no room in the diamond for the feelings and i think what you said was that the soul contains the feelings

[00:39:51] i might is so it's more like uh uh yeah it's more like a can of beans one of our friends at the moment is raving about the heinz multivariate being beans right so when we were kids we had i heinz bagged beans and it was just one bean in the can right but now they've got all sorts of different beans one of their

[00:40:13] they do the the original baked beans but they also do like a multi-bean can right she says it's fantastic right so you're you're kind of putting forward soul as like a can of beans with all these different things in it and i'm seeing soul as a diamond that's hidden by hidden by the the things by the feelings

[00:40:43] so there's a slight mismatch there um yeah but in the souls in inside of the soul the anger and the pain and the shame are sacred and so they're transformed they're alchemized into something better they're they're teaching you they're showing you they're guiding you and sometimes it's just guiding

[00:41:07] you of what you don't want right what you don't need that's why when those emotions arise they don't feel good why don't they feel good because they're not a part of you they're not supposed to be there but they keep showing up and that's what healing is really we put ourselves into a trance like state

[00:41:34] of rethinking the same thing over and over and over again i think it's like we have um oh my gosh what was like over 60 000 thoughts in the day and don't quote me on this um i wrote about it in one of my other books but 90 of those thoughts that we have are repetitive 90 we repeat the same thing 90 so what

[00:41:59] are you repeating to yourself right what is that one is that anger is that thought about something that maybe your spouse said to you that morning i mean guilty as charged uh you know maybe they said something that just hit you the wrong way but our job is to go wait why did that hit me that way i mean were they really trying to be malicious or did it just hit me the wrong way because there is something

[00:42:26] deep within me that's going there's more to that story and what is it and do i do i want to live with that anger no i don't i don't want to live in that angered state so what do we do we release it and we alchemize it we turn it into something better because energy can't be destroyed right it

[00:42:52] can only be transformed from one form to another so what are we going to do with fear are we going to turn it into love or are we just going to let it be fear when we transform it into love the soul can harvest it and hold it as something beautiful and that's how we expand that's how we

[00:43:13] become more aware a question came to me earlier in the the week which i i asked somebody you're the first adoptee that i've spoken to since i had the idea so i'd love to ask you your opinion on this right

[00:43:35] what if what if trauma wasn't a cut what if it was a veil i love that because trauma is not the actual

[00:43:56] event that happened trauma is the emotions and the wounds and all that that continue that's the trauma that's it's the memory it's the what are we telling ourselves it's the repetitiveness so the veil it it totally intertwines with what we're saying here it's allowing do you want to lift that veil and

[00:44:26] see what else is under there right what is what is this really about i believe that we have a sacred soul contract that we decide the lessons we want to learn when we come to the earth school so to speak and i know people get so angry i didn't choose this did you know the the horror of things that happen

[00:44:53] in the world i'm like no we don't choose our circumstances because we were given free will but we choose the lessons that we're going to learn that are given to us the circumstances allow us that opportunity to learn those lessons so what can we learn from this what is this telling me about myself or about somebody else i know it's helped me heal a lot of other relationships when i see

[00:45:22] other people's lessons that are you know repeating like the same thing keeps showing up over and over and over again and guess what spirit is just going to keep showing you that opportunity to learn and heal until you go okay yeah i've had enough of that so what can we do with this

[00:45:45] so when you say we choose do you mean the soul we chooses the soul we chooses however the soul chooses with the what i call the spiritual family who is pretty much anybody you've ever met in your life and not met it's your lineage it's your biological lineage it's your adoptive lineage it's the angel team

[00:46:10] spirit guides the whole nine yards the angelic light kingdom so to speak um some people might have heard it be called the light council the kingdom of god the you there's so many different names out there for it but you kind of you're all a part of the story we're all just interwoven within one another we're all

[00:46:35] spiritually connected and that's a lot that's a lot for somebody to take in especially if this is the first time they're hearing it yeah it's a bit it's pushing it a little bit for me so maybe i need to read the book is it on audio if you don't on audio it is on audio yes it's um it's

[00:46:57] not on amazon yet it's on spotify barnes and noble and so many other outlets apple it is out there okay um at the top of the interview and we've been going like 52 minutes now right so since we start chatting so it's just flowing right um yeah i i you mentioned this word spiritual psychology

[00:47:20] um when we spoke a couple of months ago so what what is spiritual psychology spiritual psychology is basically looking at your situations your lifestyle who you are from a spiritual perspective

[00:47:42] um it's the opportunity to like i said earlier to shift your perspective to look at things from a lightened point of view for you know lack of a better term like let's shine the light on the situation and let's let's see what this means from a bigger picture yeah not just from a human

[00:48:05] circumstance but from a spiritual circumstance have you heard of the term spike psycho spiritual have you heard that i have not psycho spiritual okay so we mentioned it quite a lot on the podcast

[00:48:23] because it it is really what so i talk a lot about a therapy modality called ifs internal family systems and it's a psycho spiritual framework which means it looks at psychology and spirituality okay yeah so

[00:48:53] my my take is if i put the so how would i put these two together right so uh do you know what a oh do an easy one right uh and uh you think of an orange right a fruit the orange the fruit right okay um

[00:49:19] a psycho spiritual framework would apply to the metaphor of an orange right would say that the psychology is the skin and the spirit is the flesh of the orange yeah mm-hmm the flesh of the orange

[00:49:41] the orange is um not damaged when the orange is dropped yeah the the damage the damage the damage the the the damage is is soaked up by the psychology and doesn't touch the spirit and ifs

[00:50:11] the only modality is the only modality that i've heard of that is psycho spiritual right because all the other ones that i've heard of and there's like four to four hundred other ones and i haven't all the names right all those other 400 they they are psychological not psycho spiritual

[00:50:28] and that's a big disservice because the most profound healing is in the spirit soul world not in the psychological world yeah i agree 100 so psycho spiritual sorry so uh spiritual psychology

[00:50:59] means i think letting spirit inform our thoughts and feelings so yeah that'd be a yeah way of saying it i mean i i i have a four-step formulation that i've used with my clients and it was in my past book flying free and it's called the solution activation where there's four steps it's recognition acceptance release and

[00:51:25] inspired action and so you go through these processes but the last step is it's not just action it's inspired action because i believe when we are inspired we are in spirit and we are channeling and we are working together with a power that is greater than ourselves and so if we can surrender to the situation and just kind of say show me show me my next step and take one little step forward

[00:51:56] in the in the right direction we can make great changes within ourselves yeah and it all it all goes together you're absolutely right there is a disservice um spirituality is definitely making a comeback into the lives of many people um it's been trickling in for the last you know i mean it's always there but it's been poo-pooed

[00:52:24] a lot by people as being witchcrafty weird um just woo-woo did i already say woo-woo um but there's so much more to it and it doesn't have to be weird you know it does it's because it's beautiful i mean when you really get down to to the nitty-gritty of it and you have the right people

[00:52:52] that are showing you the way it it's absolutely beautiful it's a beautiful way to live your life it's a beautiful way to change to heal to transform um i just wish more people could turn

[00:53:10] to their spiritual side because we're innately born spiritual beings it is transformation then a return to spirit return to soul return to solve to use your words to spirit i i mean spirit's a part of the soul right spirit is a collection for me spirit is a collection of souls um and spirit

[00:53:39] might be you know a collection of your souls from from lifetimes you know there's that's a whole nother yeah conversation but um yeah it's a return to spirit your spirit thanks michelle thanks listeners we'll speak to you again very soon take care