Rooted With Rhonda Littleton

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Rhonda, Rhonda Littleton. Looking forward to our conversation today. It's always great talking with you. Thank you. Thank you Simon. Looking forward to talking to you as well. Thank you. So Rhonda leads a home for me in South Carolina and she is also in children's ministry.

[00:00:30] Her mum and dad fostered and she too has fostered as well. So a rich and deep connection and experience with this unique space. Yep, it's been good. It's been part of the DNA of my childhood and that's led into or just grown into adulthood as well.

[00:01:00] Yeah. So what does thriving mean to you Rhonda? Yep, it is to being rooted, right? To being grounded and rooted in really good. and my, where I come from and my faith. It means a great, grounded in discipleship and rooted in being a follower, a Christ follower.

[00:01:29] And so that I strive to follow him every day and depend on him and go where he, where God directs. And so that is a thriving in a, um, a relationship with God means thriving, also thriving in relationship with, uh, others.

[00:01:51] And, um, um, whether that be, um, my colleagues are folks in the child welfare profession, our families that are fostering and adopting, just helping them to, to, um, grow in not just spiritual development, but just in resources, helping folks, giving folks resources, um, or helping to provide resources, uh, to help, um, folks.

[00:02:21] To know how the brain can heal and how, um, we all long for connection and being able to, uh, connect with one another is, um, in relationships, super important.

[00:02:37] Yeah. Yeah. Um, so when, when you use words like, um, grounded and rooted, the, the, the word that comes to its mind off the back of that is, is strength. Is that, is that what it's about? Right. Mm-hmm. Yes. Um, strength, right. Our stability, right. We're not just, um,

[00:03:05] um, we have that grounded and rooted in a foundation of Christ. So we're just not, um, tumbleweeds blowing through the, through the wind. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and what does that, that give, what, what does that give you? Mm-hmm. Uh, security and, um, um, security and safety.

[00:03:35] Uh, the feeling of, um, for me and my relationship with Christ is that is his presence. Um, it's his presence in me, right? That Christ and I are, um, on this journey together.

[00:03:51] And it is a, um, um, and at direction. It gives direction. It gives, um, my relationship with Christ gives me confidence, uh, in who he's created me to be. And just a, just a purpose. Yeah. So the, the words that you've used the word discipleship, right.

[00:04:16] And, and you, the other word that came to me as you were describing that was kind of companionship. Right. Yes. As well. Do those differ to you? Discipleship and companionship. Well, discipleship is a follower, like, um, wanting to grow and to be more and more like Christ. Being more and more like my best friend, which that would, that would lead right into that companionship, right? That relationship.

[00:04:47] Yeah. Yeah. It feels very profound. Well, um, Simon, I think the, so I think I know that, um, God has created all of us with a purpose, right?

[00:05:09] And so I think when you find what that purpose is, there is true contentment and a true sense of peace and a true sense of like, you know why that you are created and what you are created for. Um, and that means a lot of different things for a lot of different people. Thankfully, we're not all created for the same thing.

[00:05:39] We're all created to be in relationship with Christ. But, um, the Bible tells us, Bible tells us Jeremiah 29 11 says God has a plan and a purpose for us, a plan and a good purpose, right? That, and that he, that is, that is just for us. The plan and purpose is individual.

[00:06:00] And, um, first of all, it's relationship with him, but then it is, um, asking for, um, you know, where, um, where God wants us, what, what he wants us to do in the purpose that he has for us. And so we're all have different personalities and different strengths and different abilities.

[00:06:25] And, um, I believe all of those are to be used, uh, that God gives us those to use for, for his good. Yeah. The word that's coming to, to my mind as you, you're sharing this is, is certainty. Mm-hmm. Right. It's a, yeah, a certainty of, um, a certainty and a confidence, right? And knowing who we are.

[00:06:53] Um, we, I know Karen Purvis, uh, which had the privilege of, um, being in one of the, uh, last, uh, trainings she did is for practitioners. And, uh, she would, she says, um, she would say frequently that we cannot take people to a level of healing that we are not willing to go ourselves. Right.

[00:07:21] We, and so a healing meaning that, um, we all have a lot of, um, a lot of, uh, situations, a lot of, a lot of things in our own suitcases. Right.

[00:07:37] A lot of life experiences and that we use those life experiences connected with, uh, in my case, my relationship with Christ connected with the relationship with Christ and those experiences he's allowed me to have to, to, um, be a helper to serve, to help, to be able to share resources.

[00:08:04] And things that I've learned from other people with other people. Right. So, so, uh, if listeners don't know, uh, who Karen Purvis is, she, along with David Cross, were the, who was her professor. We've interviewed David a couple of times for the show, actually. Yes. Um, so, uh, she, she and David created the TBRI framework, which is trust based relation.

[00:08:35] Relational. Yeah. Relational intervention. Is it? That's, that's correct. Yes. Mm hmm. Right. So, um, and that's, that's at TCU. So Texas Christian University, which I have become familiar with, not only from the, uh, the people like yourselves that I've interviewed who are, who are TBRI trained, TBRI practitioners, but also through Landman. Right.

[00:09:02] So this, uh, this show on the show as a show on Paramount called Landman. Yes. And, um, uh, and Billy Bob Thornton's daughter, uh, she, she forces her way into TCU. Right. Uh, but she's, she's not, uh, I, she, she's on the cheerleader program, I think. Yeah. I don't know what else she's doing, but she's not, she's got nothing to do with TBRI. But it's interesting for me to see these two worlds. Right. These two worlds, two worlds collide.

[00:09:32] Yes. Yes. How, obviously it's Texas Christian University. Right. So we've got two, two things coming together here. The, the kind of the psychological side and the spiritual side. Right. Is that, I mean, is, is that what TBRI is, is based on, on, on a combination of those two? Or how does that look? Is it more psychological?

[00:10:00] We talk about neuroscience and how the brain forms and how the vein, the brain adapts and neuroplasticity and all those sorts of great things. And also the relational stuff. So you've got, you've got a relational piece, you've got a psychological piece and you've got a spiritual piece. That's right. That's right. And I, I think, and so TBRI, right.

[00:10:27] Focuses really on the psychological piece and the relational piece with the understanding, not necessarily because we know that great healing can come in neurologically from connection and from relationships.

[00:10:50] And ultimately that is, that Christ is the creator and the, and has created our brains and all of the intricate details of our brains and neuroplasticity and neurons and our brains creating all of the different neurons. God has created that.

[00:11:16] But just understanding though, that not everybody comes to TBRI with the same spiritual background. And so understanding that we all come at different places and different levels. And so it's going to, it's going to mean different for, for a lot of different people. Right.

[00:11:45] And so the, the, the foundation, the foundation is that God created us and he knit us together. And there's a lot, and we live in a very, very broken world and there's a lot of brokenness. And so that nobody is, nobody is perfect.

[00:12:10] And we all have, we all have different, different relationships and different trauma because of that. But a connection with that one caring adult are connection, the connection of physiological and ecological

[00:12:37] and all the, all the connection things of really good eye contact and all the things of TBRI, our voice quality and our eye contact and physical touch and behavior matching. All of those things can help the brain to heal. Right. And so even if it is, so I guess what I'm saying, what I'm saying, Simon, is that even those that don't have the spiritual background

[00:13:06] or the, are believing the same in regards to spirituality or creator that formed us, that does their brain can still heal. Right. Right. This, that with, because of compassion and love and care from a loving, caring adult and a loving, caring adult, responding to needs and meeting needs and helping, uh, um, the more positive experiences that we have. Right.

[00:13:32] We know more positive neurons fire in our brain, creating healthy pathways. So that for me comes from, um, a source of spirituality, but that doesn't come from, with everybody who is involved in child welfare or TBRI or helping, helping kids to heal. Right. And so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:02] So you've used the word healing a couple of times. Um, what does healing mean to you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think understanding, and I think that, uh, it, that also is different for everybody. Right. Right.

[00:14:20] That, um, and healing doesn't mean that we are not going to have trauma or the trauma that we have experienced has gone away. That means that we are able to, um, because, um, because, because of folks coming along beside us and walking with us through the importance of resiliency.

[00:14:46] And it gets us to a different level of, uh, being able to, uh, being able to, um, function or being able to be able to be productive in whatever career or socially or, um, wherever, wherever we're lead it, wherever. Wherever we're leading.

[00:15:16] Oh, I'm sorry. Wherever we're, wherever we're growing. So healing, healing, um, is a process in a lot of different situations, right? It is, it's, it's being consistent and it's being mindful and it's being attuned and it's being engaged and it's, um, constant with, in helping.

[00:15:44] So it's like one pathway, one, um, neurological pathway being restored and reconnected at a time, which could take a whole, um, lifetime. Right.

[00:15:59] And so coming from complete healing, I don't think that, um, here in the, in the broken world that we live in, um, there, there will always be, um, there will, there will always be brokenness and there will always be, um, areas where it is not completely healed. Right.

[00:16:28] And so, um, levels, levels of healing, right? Here in this world. So to me, you're describing kind of a quality, uh, creating an environment for ourselves or, or, or for our, for our kids. Right. And, uh, and, uh, and, and how we're being in the world. Right.

[00:16:59] Right. And attachment is so important. Right. And so just being, um, just the process of attachment, of being able to give care, of being able to receive care. And so that healing comes through that to, to a degree, right. We're able to give care. We're able to receive care. We're able to tell people what we need.

[00:17:28] We're autonomous. We're good by ourselves or we're good in a crowd of 2,500 people. Like it was that, uh, Christian Alliance for Orphans. And so being, um, that, that is our, our attachment, being secure in that attachment is also a part, a process, a process in healing. And so.

[00:17:57] So what, what gets in our way, what, what gets in the way of our, of our thriving, of our healing? How, how does trauma play into all that? Well, I think just the, um, that's a great question, Simon, of what gets in our way of that.

[00:18:19] I think, um, sometimes people who don't understand trauma, um, and don't understand how to help kids who are dysregulated or, um, that, that's a hindrance, right? That is, um, um, uh, a barrier.

[00:18:47] Sometimes just the, um, not understanding, not understanding trauma is, um, is a barrier to thriving. I think, um, the, um, the, is such a, uh, lifestyle.

[00:19:07] So I think we were all, we, our first reaction is to parent or to teach or to lead or to, if we're not, if we don't have biological kids, but we're in the, we foster or we lead others.

[00:19:25] I think that first, the first reaction or the, the, our foundation is to, uh, parent the way that we were parented or to lead the way that, or to, to, uh, give care the way that we received care. Right. If we're not, if we're not, if we don't feel like that, we are, um, parenting, we are, even if we are not parent, if we're not parents and you are, and you're not fostering or you haven't adopted.

[00:19:54] If you are, you have any influence over any, um, child at all, you're still parenting. Right. Because whether you're a teacher or a caregiver in any form. Right. And so our first reaction is to parent the way that we were parented. And sometimes we have, uh, sometimes that, that was not good. And so we have to be mindful of that.

[00:20:21] We have to think about our, what we bring to the table and what is our own situation and how we were parented. And is that, um, healthy? Yeah. Is that healthy?

[00:20:37] And so, uh, there's a lot of things, a lot of, in regards to just my journey, um, with, with fostering and, um, and what I do as a profession in regards to children's ministry. I have to think about a lot of times that, that, of the importance of, um, and as I am leading kids, the importance of their self-worth, self-efficacy, right?

[00:21:06] Giving them voice, right? The importance of, um, helping them to regulate, right? In whatever situation it is, maybe, uh, they have never had anyone who regulated for them or regulated with them. And so they don't know how to self-regulate.

[00:21:26] And so helping with regulating tools, just giving, uh, even in simple situations of helping kids to be able to regulate, right? Proprioceptive, that deep muscle. So I love that we all have, we all have a magic mustache, right? And so, um, we, those parasympathetic pressure points on our upper lip, we can all calm ourselves by ourselves.

[00:21:53] Our square breathing, our pushing a wall, our, um, having a stress ball, our, um, just even, I found myself, even as regulating myself, is just pushing my hands really, really tight together, right? Or doing a chair push-up. Those are things that help me to regulate besides my pressing those parasympathetic pressure points.

[00:22:22] And so, um, the importance of regulating ourselves and then helping our kiddos are those that we are caring for to regulate. That's a, that is a, that's a very, uh, important, um, uh, decision to make first, right? So sometimes when we, a hindrance would be when we don't make that decision to regulate ourselves first.

[00:22:51] And what comes up is out of the overflow of how we were, how we were parented or what might be a knee-jerk reaction instead of stopping to regulate ourselves before helping someone else to regulate. Yeah. Which is important.

[00:23:15] One of the things, one of the things that people, this came up yesterday, I was interviewing somebody else with TBRI practicing yesterday. Um, one of the things that comes out, comes all, pretty much always comes up when I'm interviewing somebody that's done this training is that they, they say, you know, I, I chose to go on this training, um, to help my work with kids.

[00:23:38] Uh, and, and, and, and, and yet what, what I learned was as well was I learned an awful lot about myself. Right. One hundred percent. So what, what did you, what did you learn about yourself going through that? Right. Yes. Um, that probably just that very important thing of, I, I had great parents.

[00:24:07] I, um, felt like that, you know, there, there were a lot of great things about my childhood, but there are a lot of things too, that I learned that's not the best in helping kids with trauma. Right. So being that very thing of being able to regulate myself first, not, not the reaction of, um, being reactive. Right.

[00:24:37] And so in proactive times helping, um, so I think probably the most important thing that I learned about myself was the importance of, um, I'm great at giving care. Right. Right. Maybe not so much, um, just that my own secure attachment as an adult, making sure that, um, I am, I am working on that.

[00:25:05] And, um, um, so being able to give care, being able to receive care, being able, um, and so then that, so giving care is strong. Right. Being able to, uh, receive care, uh, much better than I used to be. Being able to tell people what I need, I'm still working on that. Right. And so I'm also much better about that. But then, um, being autonomous, right. I'm, I'm good. Right.

[00:25:33] I've, um, uh, feel like that I'm good in a, in a crowd of people, uh, not as comfortable in a crowd of people. And I'd much rather be, um, uh, on a, um, cabin in a cabin, um, on a river somewhere in nature. Uh, but those, so what we, so you learn a lot about yourself.

[00:25:56] I think that really, um, and I, I majored in psych in college and, um, I'd done a lot of other childhood development study before doing TBRI.

[00:26:10] But I think the importance of really that attachment cycle of the brain and what we are continuing to learn about that is, was one of the, was one of the key things from myself that are on attachment cycle. Right. Or on not attachment cycle, but are on attachment.

[00:26:34] And how that, how that plays into everything, every relationship, everything that we do. Um, yeah. So, um, I'm just, it occurred to me that, uh, how people could get an insight, a deeper insight into the sorts of things that, uh, that you're talking about here. So Karen Purvis does have a couple of books and one of them, um, the, the connected child.

[00:27:04] Yes. It's got, um, it's got a ridiculous amount of, uh, of reviews. So 2,860 reviews, the books. Oh yeah. Wow. Yeah. So if people, uh, I'll put some links in the show notes if you, cause it's Karen with a Y. So, and if you're driving, um, you're not going to write that down.

[00:27:34] So I'll put some, I'll put some links in there, in, in the, um, the show notes. Cause a lot of people talk about this idea that we can't regulate somebody else if we're dysregulated. Right. So it all, it all, it all, it all starts with us, uh, how calm we're, we're, we're doing, uh, how calm we are. Right.

[00:28:01] And, and, and how peaceful we are, you know? Right. Yeah. In, in, um, in, as you refer a broken world and a world that's moving at a very fast pace. Yes. So how do we find that peace in, in this frenetic environment?

[00:28:32] Right. Well, Simon, I think the only, um, the only way that we're, that we can find that peace is through a relationship with Jesus. Right. Jesus says, you will have trouble, right? Because of Genesis chapter three, we know that we live in a broken fallen world. And Jesus even said, you, there will be trouble.

[00:29:01] There will be, uh, lots of, um, disruptions. There'll be lots of turmoil. There'll be lots of unsettledness. Uh, but Jesus is, I have overcome. I've overcome the world. I have the peace. Jesus brings that peace that passes all understanding.

[00:29:22] So as, um, as a Christ follower, the, the only way that we can have that peace is through, is through Jesus. Yeah. There's a lot of things, right? And, and, and a lot of people are searching for that peace. They're searching for that peace through, uh, careers, through family, through adopting more kids, through, um, relationships.

[00:29:51] Um, but the only, the only true peace is through a personal relationship with Christ. So, um, when, so that's what you do when you pray, right? Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:09] Um, and I guess people that in different, into different faiths, if you're into, if you're into meditation or you're not, you know, you know, you're a spiritual person, but you're, you're not, not a Christ follower. Then you might find it through that meditation, meditation space. Um, what, you, you said that the, the, the peace that passeth all understanding. Yeah.

[00:30:36] And I heard that this morning, funnily enough. Yeah. So what is it? What is the peace that passeth all understanding? It's, it's not found in the head. I mean, is that what you're talking about? No, no, no, it's not in the head. It's in the heart. It's in the heart relationship with Christ. Simon, you, um, the peace that passes all understanding. There's so much, right?

[00:31:05] There's so much in the world that we do not understand. There's so much that, um, kids experience. That's horrible that we don't understand how that could happen. Um, that peace, right? We know that, um, so we know as Christ followers too, that this is not the end of the story, right?

[00:31:34] One day, um, Jesus is going to return and there, there's going to be a, uh, uh, there is going to be peace, right? There is going to be a new, um, there, all things are going to be made new.

[00:31:51] And so that this is not, we're just here, um, being stewards of the time and the things and the people that God has given to us. Um, but this is not, um, this is not the end, right?

[00:32:12] There's going to, um, God said there, um, Jesus came to give life and to give it abundantly, to give it to the full. And so he's the only one. Jesus is the only one that can give abundant life. And, um, right after that verse, it says that, um, the thief, Satan comes to steal, kill and destroy. And I think we've seen that.

[00:32:41] And so we know that Jesus came, uh, because of, um, to, to be make a way for us not to be separated from him because of a fallen world because of sin. And so, um, he, he, um, he's going to come again. He's going to return and then all things, uh, will be made new.

[00:33:06] So the only piece, the only thing, the all, I think your question was in regards to peace. Uh, how can we have that? That's the only way that we can have peace is through, is through Christ. So how do you put those two things, the two things together? And the two things I mean is, is, is the peace, the peace of self-regulation and peace and the peace in, in Jesus.

[00:33:34] How do those two, do those two things sit together? How do you see those? Yeah, I think so. I think, um, so, um, and I understand, I think I understand here what you're saying is, um, if you don't have Jesus, can you still have peace in self-regulation?

[00:34:03] And I think we still have the skills. We still have the tools. We still have, know how to, um, have calm and self-regulate. We can, we still all have those parasympathetic pressure points that we can press and they can be calming. They can calm us or the deep breathing.

[00:34:30] We still all have the ability and the tools is every, everybody does for, uh, deep breathing or square breathing or to sit and calm and meditation or music and, um, calm. Whatever is best for us and self-regulating. We all still have those tools, right?

[00:34:52] But there, if we do not have, um, the, uh, if we don't have the peace that only Jesus can give, we're still going to have that hole in our heart. That is a God-sized hole that can only be filled with the presence of Jesus. And so that's the Holy Spirit that comes into our life. And so that gives direction and gives comfort, right?

[00:35:22] That true comfort and that true, um, peace. I don't worry about, right? Today here is the final day for, um, a midterm election here in our, in the U.S. And so God, God is sovereign overall, right? I don't, I'm not worried about what's going to, what the outcome of that's going to be.

[00:35:49] As a, uh, citizen, I am going to, uh, clearly, um, take my right to vote very seriously. And I am going to vote, but God already knows what the outcome is going to be, right? We're not, he already knows. And so he is going to be sovereign overall. That isn't that whatever the outcome of the election is tomorrow is not going to change

[00:36:18] God's plan for, um, for the world. It's not going to change that. It's not going to change God's plan for his people. He, that's, that has been determined since before the beginning of time, right? And so he is sovereign overall. We are just to be obedient. We're to be obedient to, um, to, um, the Bible says to love the Lord, your God with all your heart, mind, and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, right?

[00:36:48] That's the greatest commandment. So we can love the Lord, our God with all of our heart, mind, and soul, and have that relationship with him that can bring peace. He's going to, he is going to help us and direct us and guide us and, um, give us the ability to love our neighbor as ourself and whatever that needs to look like.

[00:37:15] So are we talking physical peace versus spiritual peace? Well, Simon, for me, that's the same thing. That's the same thing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. For, for me. Yeah. That's the same thing. Yeah. That feels like a good place to bring it in. Yeah. Thanks, Rhonda.

[00:37:45] Thank you, Simon. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you. Thanks. Speak to you soon, listeners. Bye-bye.