Breaking Through With Sue Edmonson

[00:00:00] Hello everybody welcome to another episode of Thriving Adoptees podcast

[00:00:06] today I'm delighted to be joined by Sue, looking forward to our conversation

[00:00:10] today Sue. Thank you. Yeah we haven't had any Brits on for a while so it's great

[00:00:17] to have a conversation. All right. Yeah so healing, what does healing mean to you Sue?

[00:00:28] Doing things that will help me feel better, to work out a lot of pain and anger

[00:00:37] and for me it's without affecting anyone else. To me there's no point dumping your pain on

[00:00:44] someone else if they don't know what to do with it. So the stuff I can do on my own

[00:00:53] Stuff you can do on your own. Or with a group like a yoga class

[00:01:01] you know where it isn't intrusive, where they're not asking questions.

[00:01:05] Yeah because we see so much of that leaking don't we? Like we're leaking our anger and it's

[00:01:12] and it's impacting other people and we don't want that to happen so we want

[00:01:19] we want more harmony on the inside. So we're kind of like more harmony on the outside right?

[00:01:25] Yeah. Yeah. And it's been my experience that however well meaning other people are

[00:01:34] are if it hasn't happened to them they just don't get it. Yeah yeah and what that causes

[00:01:46] us some frustration I guess as adoptees how would you how would you sum it up

[00:01:53] that's effect the effect of that on you? Well I've learned just to keep my mouth shut

[00:02:00] I don't tell many people I'm adopted unless it's appropriate or unless they feel

[00:02:07] you know I feel like a summing clinician you know. Yeah so have you learned that

[00:02:14] have you learned that the the hard way by kind of like oversharing talking too much about it

[00:02:19] and then realising or or have you always been. I think I mean most people are okay let's

[00:02:27] you know be clear on that and I'm not talking about now I'm talking about years ago school and

[00:02:35] you know early employment that sort of thing. I wouldn't say it was so much oversharing

[00:02:42] it's just if I've mentioned it because they don't understand it being weaponised

[00:02:50] everything stops there because I'm adopted and they can do what they like but it's all my

[00:02:56] fault because I'm adopted and I've had all these problems and I think well I'm just as good

[00:03:03] as you lot you know I don't want it weaponised I don't want it used against me by people who

[00:03:09] didn't understand the situation. I mean I'm not talking about now it's completely different to

[00:03:18] mean as a society. Yeah we know far more now about child development than people did in the 50s and 60s

[00:03:28] and as a child well not as a little child but from seven onwards I think home was not good

[00:03:39] we were on a downward slope and I really didn't appreciate being told how lucky I was and

[00:03:48] how wonderful the parents are. I mean I think with most adoptees you mention your adoption

[00:03:54] and it becomes about the parents and we were living in a mess and I didn't want them to know

[00:04:01] and I didn't want to talk about it and basically I just wanted them to mind their own business

[00:04:05] because there was nothing they could do to help anyway.

[00:04:11] Why did you say that? Why did you say there's nothing they could do to help?

[00:04:16] Because I got it only now and again as a miserable child or at work in my 20s.

[00:04:28] I just wanted to be on my own and someone had come up and say you know I want to help you can I help

[00:04:36] you and I'm just thinking yeah just go away there's nothing you can do and confiding in the wrong

[00:04:44] person is only going to make things worse so I felt I had to keep my troubles to myself at that time.

[00:04:52] I think I should explain in that I'm the eldest of five adopted children

[00:05:03] and my adopted parents had four before they had five stated in the obvious.

[00:05:12] They always said they wanted four and they had two boys and two girls

[00:05:18] and as it happened there were two dark hair and two fair hair just you know the look of the draw

[00:05:26] and all of us were basically alright so you think what more do they want?

[00:05:34] And I mean even at seven I knew this was going to go wrong they got a phone call from the

[00:05:42] adoption agency would they take another child? Now they had actually no intention of no desire to

[00:05:51] take another child they said they wanted four and they got four and that was it but I mean I don't

[00:05:59] really know what happened this is a seven year old memory but I'd be sent out to play and I'd sit

[00:06:07] on the back step and listen in to what was going on and there were quite a lot of conversations about it

[00:06:21] because mum was from quite a large family although both mum and dad were one of three

[00:06:28] mum had more relatives than dad or more relatives living nearby anyway and there were huge

[00:06:34] discussions and the overwhelming conclusion everyone came to was no you've got enough you're

[00:06:43] doing enough and even as a seven year old I felt it strange because couples who want to adopt

[00:06:52] they approach the agency if you sit at home and wait for the phone to ring

[00:06:59] you'll be waiting a very long time so even then I thought there was something wrong and you see

[00:07:04] with adopted dad being a doctor I just think this child was dumped on us anyway mum seemed to want

[00:07:17] him more than anyone else I mean as I say it was a child I don't really know with dad

[00:07:22] I don't know whether he was as keen as mum or just went along with it

[00:07:29] but it went wrong virtually from the start this kid had so many problems difficulty

[00:07:38] feeding difficulty settling you know screaming all night and then serious behavior problems and

[00:07:46] he didn't I mean we four we played together and that was the time when you could we'd go

[00:07:53] around to friends houses or friends had come here and we play or we play in the street

[00:07:59] he never seemed to get the rules that you know you have to take turns there are rules to the

[00:08:04] games and he just caused havoc and at the time I held mum personally responsible for this

[00:08:17] though now of course with the benefit of years of hindsight where has she played a part

[00:08:24] other people played a part as well and it shouldn't have happened

[00:08:29] it just shouldn't have happened full stop it was the wrong he was in the wrong place

[00:08:34] he needed younger parents with a lot more energy and preferably an army type views of discipline

[00:08:42] you know but it just it didn't work no it had serious mental health problems and it was family

[00:08:51] wrecking behavior and fortunately for all of us he got sectioned

[00:09:01] he did something that even my parents would not put up with he had abs across the line big time

[00:09:13] and the police were involved and he went to went to trial and he was found unfit to plead

[00:09:20] and he was sectioned and he was out of the way in a secure mental health facility for six months

[00:09:29] and we all sort of blossomed you know you've obviously heard of the Bamba family Jeremy Bamba

[00:09:38] yeah yeah well reading about that there were so many similarities with our family

[00:09:46] the big difference was neither my dad or my two other brothers had the slightest interest in guns

[00:09:56] I think if we had a gun in the house none of us would be here and someone would be sitting talking

[00:10:02] to you saying well it was actually another family that this happened to yeah yeah was

[00:10:09] was you mentioned up there outset about doing you know healing being doing things to help you feel

[00:10:17] better um and yes anger was was was there some anger towards your mum for bringing this fifth

[00:10:27] child into the house that needed more care yes when she wasn't up to it and she must have known

[00:10:35] and also for not taking advice uh in that he was he went to three different schools he was expelled

[00:10:47] from one school and then he went to another junior school and mum was often called in

[00:10:54] for his behavior and then went to the secondary school and mum was called in again and the head

[00:11:02] master there who my other brothers think was okay he had a good reputation this bloke he was

[00:11:10] known for being firm but firm he suggested that he was so out of hand he had to be sent away

[00:11:19] they were obviously not coping and mum wouldn't do it no and dad wouldn't do it

[00:11:28] and i remember i know this sounds really awful it isn't as bad as it sounds though it was two

[00:11:37] completely different reaction to the same piece and use in the mum mum was dreadfully upset and

[00:11:45] was crying upstairs and we four were all dancing around the dining room table thinking he was going

[00:11:53] yeah now that just tells you what it was like for us kids nobody went to comfort mum we all yeah who

[00:12:00] is going alleluia which i know doesn't sound very nice but we were kids you were kids we'll forgive you

[00:12:10] yeah we wanted rid of him yeah he needed more

[00:12:17] he clearly needed more as you say more focus perhaps somebody

[00:12:24] oh he needed more you see

[00:12:29] dad's parents lived with us so there were nine in the house anyway

[00:12:35] and mum had her mother and her sister they lived around the corner

[00:12:44] and the sister had had a breakdown and wasn't quite right and there were two of her dad's sisters

[00:12:51] two elderly maid and aunts so as well as dad having a very responsible job

[00:12:57] uh they had six old stroguille people to keep an eye on plus four kids now i was angry with the

[00:13:05] adoption agency they didn't do their homework they were just so keen to dump him on a doctor

[00:13:11] i always felt problem solved and i sort of don't mind mum wanting to give him a chance

[00:13:18] but there should have been backup and support and yeah i mean it's the whole system it's not

[00:13:24] just her yeah and and this was presumably this was late 50s early 60s was there

[00:13:30] he was born in 1960 yeah and he got sectioned i think in either 80 81 so as a teenager as a

[00:13:45] top juniors teenager early adult a lot of the time i wanted to be on my own and i didn't

[00:13:51] want people coming pestering cheering me up because there's no way they could do it the only thing that

[00:13:58] would cheer me up is the home to be sorted out and there's no way a complete stranger could do that so

[00:14:06] yeah i became quite solitary yeah so um was there a point where you went when that was

[00:14:17] gone that you started looking inside when when he went he was out of the

[00:14:24] out of the house you started looking inside and looking self reflection

[00:14:30] yeah definitely um the first thing i did when i had a clear ear run uh was trace my birth mother

[00:14:40] and that was huge that made such a difference because i now know it was unusual but i had a brilliant reunion

[00:14:53] and i'm still in touch with a couple of my birth family in australia after 40 years

[00:15:01] yeah that was the first thing i did the second thing i did was to finish my degree with the

[00:15:14] o u i had walked out of college i couldn't go any more and hadn't finished it so i decided to finish

[00:15:22] it so i was doing things for me things i'd always wanted but there was so much chaos and drama at

[00:15:29] home and even though i'd moved out of home i always felt responsible i couldn't leave them for too long in

[00:15:36] case something happened yeah well i guess the eldest there's a feeling of oh the eldest girl yes and it

[00:15:45] was it was such a burden it really was yeah but this was it was a mixed blessing you know because

[00:15:53] one good thing about being adopted especially when you're a teenager is you're not actually related

[00:16:00] to this lot there's actually nothing to do with me it's just a cruel twist of fate

[00:16:08] yeah you know i'm here yeah that's yeah so you could was that uh that was a relief

[00:16:16] like not being answerable for their dodgy choices like taking the the fifth fifth child on it yeah

[00:16:24] yes it was and i felt and they probably hadn't meant to you know they weren't bad people but it impacted

[00:16:31] on all of us yeah terribly before we he was sectioned the six of us were ill one way or

[00:16:42] another physically or mentally i mean i had ibs and that dreadful eczema and the brother next to

[00:16:50] me was the same he was worse his skin was like a lobster another brother uh his diabetes started

[00:16:59] my sister um she i think mental health problems mom had mental health problems dad had he was

[00:17:08] quite an active man he had terrible lumbago and that's which reading up about it is stress anyway and

[00:17:15] obviously he wanted to have a clear head to go into work i just always thought this was never fair on

[00:17:22] him you know because of his job life's depended on this yeah there's a doctor yeah um the thing

[00:17:31] that's coming to me is that perhaps the uh there's an overestimation we we overestimate what we're capable

[00:17:39] of so your your your mom overestimated what she was capable of she could she thought well yes

[00:17:45] but i think there was an element of i'll show you because so many people said no oh yeah i think

[00:17:56] there was a little bit of a child in that and also her mother used to help her a lot with the children

[00:18:08] now the state in the obvious were all going to die and it was all right when nana was alive

[00:18:18] because mum had some support and she was very much a kid person my grandmother on mum's side

[00:18:26] and she was delighted she'd get stuck in with all these kids and she'd do us costumes for fancy

[00:18:31] dress and parties and that sort of thing uh but she wasn't going to last forever and things

[00:18:38] went wrong when nana died because mum had to cope with the grief of losing her mother

[00:18:45] and they were very close because the dad had been killed in the second world war

[00:18:52] um so there's obviously a closeness with a wall widow and her children

[00:18:59] and she had to cope with that and she had to cope with martin he was called

[00:19:06] and us really didn't see why we should help we did but grudgingly we felt it wasn't our problem

[00:19:14] yeah and i also felt i mean councillor in training i think um i was beginning to realize there was

[00:19:22] enabling the more we helped her the longer this would go on and perhaps if we didn't help her

[00:19:29] she would deal with it that was always in the back of my mind as a child i couldn't put it into

[00:19:34] words but it was was vaguely aware that i could be making this worse yeah so that was the hope

[00:19:42] so um listeners uh Sue mentioned oh you earlier on that's the open university so i'm presuming you

[00:19:49] you were doing some some sort of uh psychology or something that was going to help you in this

[00:19:55] no it wasn't it was it was history psychology came later that came later yeah that came later yeah

[00:20:04] and again when i had time to think about it and get my head around it and

[00:20:09] another thing that made a big impact on me uh was that um White House Farm story i think it was then

[00:20:21] my interest in psychology yeah developed you know how the hell has this happened yeah so this was the

[00:20:30] you you talked about Jeremy Bamba earlier on so um yeah this was dramatized wasn't it on UK

[00:20:37] television there's been a loss about it but i remember now Martin had been sectioned

[00:20:44] and then when he'd been sectioned dad said there was no way he was coming back

[00:20:50] and i traced my birth mother so i was in a very good place anyway and i remember driving into work

[00:21:00] and the news was on something about adoption and murders and a farm so i pulled into the next news

[00:21:08] agents bought a paper took it into work with me stuck it in my locker i thought i'll read this at

[00:21:14] lunchtime so i was eating the butties and reading the paper and i just you know jaw dropping i looked

[00:21:26] at it because the similarity even the photos of neville and june bamba were so like mum and dad

[00:21:34] height and build and reading about the family the personalities and the mental illness that wasn't

[00:21:42] dealt with and you know it wasn't acknowledged and the tension and everyone looking at the outside

[00:21:50] thinking it was lovely and i was saying shi sh Christ and i read it about three times and then

[00:21:58] my colleague who was on the same lunch break he looked at me and he said what on earth are you

[00:22:05] reading so i handed him the newspaper and he just flipped through it quickly handed it back

[00:22:16] and said yeah they're all bonkers so i thought well it hasn't affected you like it's affected me

[00:22:23] you probably are not adopted yeah but it did happen

[00:22:30] so what had your uh what had your union what had your reunion what had that done for you

[00:22:37] oh it was life changing it really was um it had answered so many questions because i'd always wondered

[00:22:49] you know why am i here you know why was i adopted what's wrong with me what was wrong

[00:22:57] with the family but it was again another mixed blessing but i found i was one of the probably

[00:23:09] quite a few adoptees who get taken from a difficult situation and why eventually end up in one that

[00:23:17] eventually becomes worse yeah now where their adoption just sends them bonkers i don't know

[00:23:25] but just being with my birth mother and you know we were so alike and just hearing their history as well

[00:23:33] and knowing where they'd come from and everything it just filled in so many pieces of the jigsaw

[00:23:41] and i then felt i think there's actually nothing wrong with me or with her or with anybody else

[00:23:51] we're just people okay my birth mother had made a mistake i'm the result of an affair

[00:23:59] and at the time she didn't have any option you see she did say last time i spoke to her

[00:24:07] and she's been long gone that she's very sorry that she didn't keep me and my siblings also feel

[00:24:16] i should have been with them because we're also alike i mean it it's this connection with the birth

[00:24:23] family but with the adoption family we've had all sorts of shared experiences we've all been through

[00:24:29] help and the birth family i don't see very often but yeah i'm more alike with them but i haven't

[00:24:36] as much to talk to them about you know it's a bit strange but um i just was just more at

[00:24:44] peace with it really simon i'd always wondered and then i got my answers and you know to us i say

[00:24:53] she made a mistake i mean don't we all but she hadn't made anything like as big a one as we adopted

[00:24:58] mom of maids yeah you know and although yes i would have liked to have stayed with them i would have

[00:25:06] liked to be brought up with my brothers and sisters but the stepfather issue isn't easy

[00:25:15] as a cancerer i used to hear it time and time again and i wouldn't say it doesn't work

[00:25:22] but if it does everybody's very lucky yeah yeah so you did a after you've done your history you went

[00:25:32] on to do some qualifications in psychology then you became a a counsellor uh

[00:25:38] uh

[00:25:47] hi sorry about that listeners we had a bit of a glitch with uh zoom so um this reading this article

[00:25:55] reading this article about the the bambas that uh that set set you thinking about psychology is that

[00:26:04] right it was yes and why people behave in various situations because up until then

[00:26:12] i hadn't known many adoptive people and i had thought very naively that it was just us

[00:26:19] having problems and everyone else was living in paradise but i had a job a couple of years later

[00:26:29] as a school attendance officer and when i was there we had some training from the school

[00:26:41] psychological service of how to handle situations how to deal with people who were very angry and

[00:26:48] how to deal with them when they're upset and how to keep your yourself safe and that triggered

[00:26:55] off an interest and it was after that really i went round to a couple of houses it happened a

[00:27:04] couple of times i'd go around to the house to see why the kid wasn't at school and 98% of the time

[00:27:12] it was just bog standard either she'd slipped in or slept in or was giving them other the

[00:27:19] run around or what happened a lot with absences on monday is that dad would have them for the weekend

[00:27:29] and then he wouldn't be too fussed about them getting the train to be in school on monday just

[00:27:34] run at the mill stuff like that but i went round to one house that was met by a very upset lady

[00:27:43] and such a tale of woe and the only thing i could think of doing was offering to make her a cup of

[00:27:50] tea and just let her talk and talk to her through and then it happened again and about a nine months

[00:27:59] a year or so later i went round to a house and the mum was in her tears and i thought i'm

[00:28:05] hopelessly out of my depth here hopelessly so i started the councillor training and with working

[00:28:16] as a councillor you don't just train and i let loose on the unsuspecting public for years and

[00:28:23] years with no safeguard or anything like that we had to do 30 hours cpd continuous professional

[00:28:35] development and i went on all sorts of courses with that you have to choose topics where you

[00:28:41] wanted to work and i'd go on courses like that so it's you know been acquired quite slowly really

[00:28:49] my knowledge over a long period of time and what what's that brought you personally in terms of

[00:28:57] if your own your own stuff

[00:29:03] well now and again i had to be careful because i felt my own stuff was coming up yeah you know i

[00:29:11] was somewhere where i just had to leave the room on one occasion you know so i'm sorry i feel

[00:29:18] sick i'll just have to go out and get some fresh air it's because my own stuff was coming back

[00:29:24] but i've just learned breathing exercises and that sort of thing to keep the lid on it i mean

[00:29:33] i can only feel safe letting it out if it's appropriate if it's in the middle of someone

[00:29:38] else's lecture perhaps not you know perhaps i just have to keep quiet yeah but whenever

[00:29:47] i've been like that during the day i'll do something physical in the evening i'll go for

[00:29:53] a swim or go for a run or dig up something in the garden you know give the lawn what for and

[00:29:59] i've got to get it out physically without with doing some benefit you know and without upsetting

[00:30:06] anyone else yeah snapping at the join doesn't work it just makes things worse

[00:30:13] you've talked about sort of two there's two main strands there um

[00:30:20] as an outsider as me looking in it's all that that physical stuff and you mentioned the yoga

[00:30:27] yeah mentioned the yoga earlier on you've also clearly um you've talked about the

[00:30:34] the the piece that came that came to you through reunion and and the answering of questions that

[00:30:43] you'd talked about it was back yes i had all these it's like what's described as a jigsaw

[00:30:49] isn't it you have pieces missing and then some of the pieces went back in yeah so maybe this

[00:30:56] so maybe it's two the three things as well obviously the third big strand is when you're

[00:31:03] when you were when you're no longer living under the same roof uh roof as uh mark did you call him

[00:31:12] mark martin martin sorry i've clutched it so those those are the three big strands

[00:31:20] um yeah the three big stands of your healing stuff i'd say is it absolutely martin being

[00:31:28] sectioned well moving away that was the start of this um but actually i think i mentioned this before

[00:31:37] before i moved out is realized i had to move out i had an alcohol induced i did something very

[00:31:47] very stupid well under the influence um basically it was a suicide attempt that failed and it was after

[00:31:56] that i thought that i saw the bigger picture i that was before i moved out but that was what

[00:32:02] decided me to move out because i'd stuck around thinking i could help and then i realized i was

[00:32:10] just wasn't helping myself you know i just had to get a grip or you know you just i felt we just

[00:32:19] couldn't have six people going down for one who was going down anyway um so that uh moving out

[00:32:30] reunion the bamboo family they just i wasn't so focused on myself that i was like i was as a

[00:32:39] child i thought you know the world's getting bigger all the time there's more and more people

[00:32:45] and more and more problems it's not just about me yeah yeah because we do that uh we we tend to

[00:32:54] as we when we're young this isn't just an adoptee thing this is a human thing it's a child

[00:33:00] teenager yeah we think we think that it it's about us we look we yeah do we blame ourselves i don't

[00:33:10] know how would you how would you say that i know i don't um i think they did quite well out of me

[00:33:20] really for help and support i mean you can always do more can't you uh but i i didn't want to be sucked

[00:33:31] into it um i always wanted that distance between their adoptive parents and my adoptive siblings

[00:33:43] especially with martin i got on well with all the others but

[00:33:50] it was it was a family wrecking individual really yeah and i've spoken to other relatives

[00:33:59] after it you know years later and they all say say the same thing you know they had a

[00:34:06] the parents had a nice family and this just wrecked it yeah and and as you said it was it was

[00:34:14] your mum's pride or i'll show them your mum's pride i think no i think there was a she just

[00:34:22] wouldn't accept i mean three head teachers of three different schools all saying the same thing

[00:34:33] i mean come on mum someone's trying to give you a message here yeah uh but she just it's this willful

[00:34:39] blindness and i i don't think she was aware of the effect it was having on us she kept hoping

[00:34:48] everything would be all right but i mean to be fair i don't think the knowledge was there

[00:34:57] anyway yeah no i mean it's a thing that comes up a lot is that we're we're looking at this stuff

[00:35:07] here in the 21st century um based on the knowledge we have now yeah and no no the

[00:35:15] stuff that happened in 1960 and i'm not sure what it was to be honest but it could well have been

[00:35:27] something like fetal alcohol syndrome yeah now i always felt the adoptive pair uh adoption society

[00:35:38] knew because wiring up someone who's already got four children and the dad is a doctor

[00:35:49] why would you do that unless you knew there was something wrong and you see with all this secrecy

[00:35:57] i mean if dad and the gp had had the medical records they might have been able to do something

[00:36:04] but secrecy was such a game then yeah i think they just enjoyed the power to be honest and you see if

[00:36:10] dad had his medical records he probably wouldn't have taken him yeah so there was the to their

[00:36:17] madness yeah the method to their um yeah i think they did like a transponder yeah i think if

[00:36:26] if they didn't tell the parents in case they didn't take the child and it was their job

[00:36:33] to place the children and there was no support or anything oh this one's off our hands yeah i mean

[00:36:40] when i got my folder it said about the um the children's society and that sort of thing

[00:36:50] and it said on it something about outcome disposal i mean we were just there to be

[00:36:55] disposed of given away there was no you know follow-up or interest they see now

[00:37:06] they try what is it we were children for parents but now they try and find the right parents for

[00:37:14] the children yeah and he was the wrong child in the wrong family yeah and you see we're not

[00:37:23] i'm in the medical history as well it actually can be very dangerous i mean it might have been

[00:37:30] fetal alcohol syndrome she might have been on drugs or something it might have been incest

[00:37:36] i don't know but it was something pretty bad yeah there's um there's something very telling with

[00:37:42] their word disposal i don't i don't normally take judgments to people on on singular words

[00:37:50] like that but that is a as a summation of what what they were up about you know they're up against

[00:37:57] oh yeah absolutely some deserve yeah yeah so um the the the moment you talked about um or you know

[00:38:11] like uh almost taking your your life what that must have been because you you seem like a

[00:38:22] strong very strong strong lady you must have been a strong kid thank you yeah i have been through a

[00:38:27] lot yeah yeah oh it was just there was a moment of madness really um a lot of things were going wrong

[00:38:40] um the things at home were just getting worse and worse and i didn't realize it at the time

[00:38:49] but i was in a toxic relationship i was seeing someone who just wasn't doing me any good and

[00:38:57] it was beginning to get to me and i had also very stupidly

[00:39:08] brought it on my own head by arguing with one of the bosses at work

[00:39:15] and i thought i'd got away with it know what happened i don't know whether he knew

[00:39:22] but some he said something like

[00:39:30] we were arguing or we were about level pegging and he said well at least i was born in wedlock

[00:39:38] well that's wow oh that lit the fire within and i said and the right bastard you turned out to be

[00:39:49] good and everyone that's what i thought yes and everyone else you know laughed and i think i got

[00:39:55] some applause as well and i thought yeah i would have thought i would have thought it yeah

[00:40:01] yeah i got summoned into his office the following day and was told in no uncertain terms to take

[00:40:12] this as a warning you have a verbal warning then you have a written warning then you are dismissed

[00:40:19] um this was my verbal warning and although i was very blase about it at the time and didn't take

[00:40:26] it too seriously i was riding a motorbike at the time and i was in the serious drinking

[00:40:33] squad at work quite a lot of us used to go out for drinks and lunchtime and after working out

[00:40:40] so there's probably some alcohol in my system and i just thought on the way home

[00:40:49] that i didn't want to be here you know home was bad the relationship was bad work was bad

[00:41:03] at the time i couldn't see the two out of the three things i had brought on my own head

[00:41:09] i didn't have to see this bloke and i didn't have to argue with senior management at work

[00:41:16] and i just thought i didn't want to be here i was riding a motorbike and i was getting off

[00:41:22] at the junction i mean i can still see it to be honest and there was this lorry huge lorry

[00:41:30] coming round the roundabout and i just thought oh sod it and instead of breaking i opened the

[00:41:37] throttle and headed for the lorry and you know i can just see that man's face even now

[00:41:47] fortunately it was a very powerful bike so i just opened the throttle a little bit more

[00:41:57] and got out of the way and the lorry driver was honking the horn and i could hear this

[00:42:02] for quite a while and i went round the roundabout and i went heading towards home

[00:42:10] i mean it's very clear even now and it was you know over 40 years ago i felt like i was in a

[00:42:17] tom and jerry car too anybody watching would have just seen a girl on the motorbike but i

[00:42:25] was having an out-of-body experience i felt as though i was up looking down and like tom and

[00:42:32] jerry the stomach was going like that all the time and i went along the road feeling very very

[00:42:39] strange and somehow something in my brain told me to look at the speedometer and i was doing

[00:42:50] just under 90 miles an hour in a residential area with a 30 mile an hour limit wow wow talk about

[00:43:02] making things worse and i that did it i thought what the hell i mean i was so lucky if some first

[00:43:10] of all i could have hit the lorry and it wasn't the driver's fault he wasn't doing anything wrong

[00:43:17] and he'd have had to live with that someone could have come out of a side road or someone had tried

[00:43:26] to cross the road it was a residential area i was just so lucky well my body ahead of a stomach sort

[00:43:35] of all came into land and i slowed down and i just drove home boy boy boy boy boy boy boy

[00:43:43] boy and that's i think when i started to turn my life around yeah big moment well i'm glad you had a

[00:43:53] powerful motorbike yeah but now that i think saved the day you see if it wasn't so powerful i might

[00:44:03] have got to the lorry anyway but it just at the last minute i thought i can't do that open the

[00:44:09] throttle a bit more and there was just enough in the engine to get me out of the way but it was

[00:44:17] afterwards i thought well what the hell did that poor bloke think yeah i mean he's done nothing i can

[00:44:23] still see the look on his face they were that close that it was uh very close and then

[00:44:30] i couldn't sleep that night i just lay in bed you know boy boy boy boy boy

[00:44:39] first thing i do was going to get rid of the bike i'm going to go back into work tomorrow

[00:44:46] on time incorrect uniform being pleasant to everyone grovel to the manager you know put

[00:44:55] right as much as i can look quite a few people i could have should have gone around and apologized to

[00:45:00] as well uh how am i going to get there oh right well the bike has to go so i got a much smaller one

[00:45:10] and then i don't want to be in this relationship anymore so i don't him yeah and i'm not going

[00:45:17] to drink so much yeah big turnaround and then with having a smaller bike and not drinking so much

[00:45:26] my finances improved i thought well i'm going to move out i'm going to get a deposit they

[00:45:33] those were the days when you could buy a house on a you know a medium salary not a huge one you

[00:45:41] can't now but i could say i had money put aside and i could save up for a deposit and moved out so that

[00:45:49] was life changing really but i realized that although things were bad i did have people who

[00:45:59] cared about me i was sort of visualizing all sorts and visualizing being taken to court and mum

[00:46:07] and dad watching and the mortification of being sentenced and them coming to see me in jail and

[00:46:16] coming collecting me on release day i thought i can't honestly i can't do that to them they

[00:46:23] don't deserve it i've got to get a grip and grow up and sort my life out i grew up this evening

[00:46:33] you talked to at the start of the conversation you talked about people

[00:46:43] sharing with people that you adopted and people weaponizing that against you well that's what he

[00:46:50] did and that's what he did now i don't know how he knew maybe it was an inspired guess because

[00:46:57] i hadn't told anyone at work but somehow he picked it up i don't know maybe it was just a guess i really

[00:47:05] don't know but that lit the fire within yeah and because of that i just didn't want it also

[00:47:18] i had been a teacher very briefly and there was an adopt a couple of adopted kids non-related

[00:47:27] brother and sister at the school and one particular teacher was quite horrible to the

[00:47:35] children because it was clear to me that she didn't understand and i just thought well do i say

[00:47:41] something or don't i i didn't but the only thing i thought i could do was raise awareness mentioned

[00:47:50] to other people just casually and so and so was bullying this kid in the i thought she was bullying

[00:47:58] this kid and you know is everything all right sort of thing and it it seemed to stop but i didn't

[00:48:05] seeing how this child was treated i didn't want to line myself up for that i didn't think i

[00:48:11] could defend her i think if i said something it would just make things worse but i i always knew

[00:48:16] i had to be very careful it was used to be a junior school but not at the secondary school they

[00:48:24] far more to worry about than me why do you think that weaponization hurts us so much

[00:48:33] because i've felt that you felt that yeah i think it's

[00:48:43] because of the ignorance i think they're showing their ignorance and because you can't argue with

[00:48:48] it i mean statement of fact we are adopted and it wasn't our choice and i think sometimes

[00:48:58] people tend to attack what they don't understand there's a lot of anxiety about adoption i've heard

[00:49:06] it quite a lot about if you're a bit different you get treated differently yeah i think it's

[00:49:14] that people are a bit wary perhaps and feel like they have to keep you under control by

[00:49:21] under control by knowing this thing about you when you see it isn't a two-way street

[00:49:28] i mean with friends if you tell a friend something the friend will very often

[00:49:35] find something in return you're sharing the confidences but this is just well i've got

[00:49:41] something i need to use against you which i found very irritating and you found it as well

[00:49:51] yeah and and and um and as you were i didn't i didn't have an answer at all for for my own

[00:50:01] question now right and as as you were thinking as you were talking i was thinking about what it

[00:50:09] could be um and and this is just a theory at the moment is

[00:50:21] it's that somebody else pointing out or inferring

[00:50:29] or downright saying it that there's something wrong with us yeah it's our

[00:50:39] it's our biggest fear you know it's the elephant in our room it's in the elephant in our room

[00:50:47] yeah and and then somebody absolutely they were good enough to be kept and you weren't

[00:50:53] and that's how i interpreted it

[00:51:00] yeah there's something big there there is isn't there well elephants are big so

[00:51:09] well that's it yes it's it it's uh it goes back to a trivial little

[00:51:17] thing that happened for me this this morning when

[00:51:24] i i can see that i could see that unless i agreed unless i agree to some extent with the criticism

[00:51:34] it doesn't hurt me

[00:51:36] it doesn't hurt you if you don't agree with it unless unless i agree with it on some level

[00:51:48] unless i agree with it on some level well you're taking away their power aren't you

[00:51:55] if you agree with it there's nothing to argue about just agree with it you can't

[00:52:09] something about them pointing out our biggest fear

[00:52:13] our biggest fear our biggest insecurity

[00:52:17] oh yeah but you see we haven't had

[00:52:24] we've had a disruption a pretty major disruption very early on in life which most people haven't had

[00:52:40] i mean even if the adopted parents are like birth parents they're good bad or indifferent

[00:52:47] you know but even if your parents aren't wonderful if you say in your birth family at least you know

[00:52:54] where you've come from and you've got your medical history and the family history and you

[00:52:59] grow up with people who look like you and certain mannerisms and that go in families

[00:53:06] but adopt you're on your own far too soon aren't you

[00:53:13] most people leave the nest whatever it's like when they are ready

[00:53:19] you've been we've been slung out long before we were ready

[00:53:24] it goes and it goes back to that point that you made earlier on

[00:53:28] um

[00:53:32] about

[00:53:34] it's just sorry it's just come out my head

[00:53:40] well it strikes me it's the pre it's the pre-verbal pre-obnative thing yeah you're talking about

[00:53:48] kids taking stuff personally that's what you're talking about yeah yeah yeah so we take stuff

[00:53:53] personally so instead of uh so we take things personally and we and the the person

[00:54:05] the conclusion that we come up with is there something wrong

[00:54:09] that's that's the con that's the conclusion for we've got that question why was i adopted

[00:54:17] there's something wrong with me that's that's what the the me focused kid brained that's what i always felt

[00:54:28] yeah not being good enough

[00:54:38] yeah

[00:54:39] yeah

[00:54:44] that's why the thriving adoptees don't logo is a diamond

[00:54:49] hmm as a direct counter to that

[00:54:57] because i'd be good place to bring it in unless you'd like to there's something else you'd like to share

[00:55:02] um

[00:55:07] no not really i mean i think it's

[00:55:11] it's always there it's always a theme in my life but it becomes less and less important as time

[00:55:19] goes on because other things happen in life

[00:55:26] i think actually

[00:55:31] the death of my adopted parents has sort of brought it to an end anyway

[00:55:38] how else that well i don't have to look after them anymore don't have to feel responsible

[00:55:46] that sort of thing yeah you're talking a lot about that earlier on about being the oldest

[00:55:51] because they're the kids responsibility oldest of five

[00:55:56] yeah well

[00:56:01] i've never wanted the guilt if anything went wrong and i wasn't there or wasn't nearby

[00:56:09] not saying i had to mine them 24 seven or anything but i was there it

[00:56:16] if i was needed you know i'd like always like them to be able to get hold of me pretty quickly

[00:56:25] and that never really went away no because you see that's another thing that's part of you

[00:56:34] really you were there for them you were there to fix their problems

[00:56:38] and although i resented it i was never been able to get rid of it completely

[00:56:43] because that's your first job isn't it to fix it you fix your

[00:56:50] birth family situation by going and then you fix their infertility

[00:56:56] you know you've done quite a bit it's a week old haven't you yeah yeah

[00:57:04] wow thanks to thanks listeners we'll speak to you very soon okay bye bye