From Anger To Peace With Quinn Wolverton

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Just did I'm delighted to be joined by Quinn, Quinn Wolverton, looking forward to our conversation, Quinn. Yes, absolutely me too.

[00:00:12] Listeners, Quinn's just had to... he's the first person that I've seen since I saw my somatic experience at Woman this morning and had some big stuff come up so we're a little bit late starting this because Quinn's had to listen to me for 30 minutes

[00:00:28] Now we're going to talk about him, right? So Quinn got in touch with me about a film that he's making and I'm getting goosebumps now. It's weird isn't it? And you know obviously he's an arty, he's making this film and he's shown this...

[00:00:44] He's contacted me through LinkedIn and shown me this trailer and I think it's really powerful. I said to him look, I want to do what I can to help you get the support that you need to make this trailer happen.

[00:00:57] So let's do the first thing that we can do on that. Let's have you on the podcast and talk about your healing journey so thank you. Absolutely, thank you for letting me share my story and getting the message out. Cool. So healing, does this word resonate with you?

[00:01:23] Yes and thinking about it, I've been thinking about healing and how I healed from my adoption stuff and I'm still healing from it and I don't know if I'll ever be fully healed but I hope that I can let some of this go at some point.

[00:01:42] But for me healing, it means acceptance, it means to be okay with what has happened and understand whether good or bad that it all happened for a reason and we all go through healing in different ways, different ways, different times. And that's the beautiful thing about healing.

[00:02:28] I've heard, asked that question so many times throughout 2024 and there's still healing bit is the one that is very common thing. It's a process I don't know. I'm going to try not to put too much of my own stuff in, right?

[00:03:01] But today I just want to put my take on that. So something that happened for me last year is that I saw healing on two levels and the first level is the psychological level. I mean, most people, you know, when we think about healing, we think about psychological.

[00:03:28] And on that, I agree, we will be healing the psychology for the rest of our lives. I totally agree. And at another level, the essence of us, I believe, just my opinion and my experience

[00:03:55] and yeah, my lived experience, I think is there's part of us that was never wounded. The essence of us is never wounded. And that, you know, talk about this being so the trauma hides our essence. It doesn't harm our essence. So yes, still healing psychologically every day.

[00:04:28] Going to the somatic experiencing lady that I've seen talking to Pamela Karenova doing the grief process, looking at that stuff, going further uncovering the pre verbal stuff. So I've resisted the temptation to do that for quite a while, but I just thought I'd do it today.

[00:04:48] So I hope you don't feel that I'm tramping on you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Because I sometimes can do it over, you know, overdo my stuff. No, no, no. What what's what healing moments for you come to mind? Yeah.

[00:05:12] Well, I've recently figured this out for me and I think that kind of coming full circle on why I reached out and why I wanted to talk to you was my films, my art. For me, that is my way of healing, but I never realized it.

[00:05:32] And especially once I made the piece that you saw and I showed that in a room full of strangers, I didn't know and that's a very personal piece for me. And people were crying and the way that they were reacting to it.

[00:05:47] I felt as if a part of me let some of that go. It wasn't mine anymore. It was everybody in that rooms. If that makes any sense, but in my mind it's for me making my films and making this film specifically that I'm trying to make.

[00:06:08] I think that's a huge part of me healing. So people the metaphor that came to mind is a problem shared is a problem half doesn't it? That was the thing that popped into my head in terms of you're sharing the grief, you're being vulnerable.

[00:06:35] You're bringing the grief out of the darkness into the light. You're sharing it and there's some metaphor. I can't remember exactly which you know, like if we go into a cupboard or we open a cupboard door,

[00:07:01] it's dark in the cupboard because the light doesn't get into the cupboard, but the light from the room rushes into the cupboard. The darkness of the cupboard doesn't make the room dark. Even if it's a huge, huge cupboard, right?

[00:07:22] Even if the cupboard is taking up 90% of the space, it's not just to do with this. I don't know why I'm playing. I'm riffing on this right now. I don't know why I'm going so much about this.

[00:07:35] Because I'm thinking of a small cupboard, a small bit of darkness. Is it to do with the cubic matrix? I'm disappearing on my own backside here. But however big the cupboard is, the darkness doesn't rush out and make the room dark. The power of the light comes in.

[00:07:57] Absolutely. And that, that, does that, just how does that stack for you? How does that feel to you? How does that match your experience in the room? I feel that it does make sense. I think for me in my journey of healing, especially just making my peace,

[00:08:27] I had never really looked at it from an outside point of view. You know, looking down upon myself. And you have to do that while writing a script. You kind of have to take yourself out.

[00:08:42] Even though it's my story, I kind of take myself out of it and write this. And so in that way, I feel as dark as the stuff is, and maybe it's not the happiest. Once you shed light onto it, you see the happiness.

[00:09:00] And that's what I got out of my little piece that you watched. Because I saw, I saw what my parents did and I understood. I just understood everything a lot more clear, which I had never done before. Yeah. So when you said making my peace. Yes.

[00:09:22] I thought peace. I said P E A C E right? And then I was going to ask you about that, but then you said my little, my little piece and you mean your piece of film, right? So it's both, I guess is it? I don't know.

[00:09:38] Yes, it is both. And I'm still working on my piece, my inner piece. And I still have to let some more stuff go. But that is slowly being chipped away. Coming to terms with everything and understanding it and healing myself.

[00:09:57] So there's, there's, there's two parts there to the, to the film piece or, I don't know, maybe more than just two. Yeah, I was thinking about the, you talked to, you've talked about the sharing of it and you've talked about the making of it.

[00:10:18] And I guess the making of it is that your film making itself. And, but then you're also talking about going upstream of that to the, the writing of the script. And that's when you're taking yourself, you're taking yourself out of the script because you're writing a script from

[00:10:42] a third person perspective rather than a first person perspective. Is that right? Yes and no. You have to, you do have to take yourself out of it now saying that that doesn't mean that you're not wanting to be truthful to yourself.

[00:11:02] But you have to, you have to tell the film in a certain way. You can't fill making as much as you could make it about real life. That's more of a documentary. A film, there's beats that you have to hit.

[00:11:18] You kind of have to maybe a little bit more dramatic or cut out certain things in like your life. But in that writing process, you're always thinking about everything that you've been through and what to add in and what to subtract.

[00:11:30] So that writing process was just part of it because I, I knew well, I'm not playing the character. I'm having somebody else play me. Yeah. I mean, that was something that hit me as I was watching the video, right? You sent me the connection.

[00:11:45] Yeah, that's still being linked in and the message on LinkedIn. And I looked at that and I thought, I don't think that's, I don't think that's got you know, for some reason I don't think that's got

[00:11:56] and what's coming for me is that I've only ever looked at one script in detail and I was, in a way, I was proofreading it for a guy. And it wasn't about, it was about an adoption adopted guy. I think it was. A long time ago.

[00:12:27] The challenge is that you've got so much of what we're talking about here is internal stuff. Right. And you can't go into somebody's head. You can if you've got, there's that film isn't there? There's the film, there's the kids animation, Disney,

[00:12:47] the second one's just come out and it looks. Oh, inside out. Inside out. Yeah. Yeah. So that goes inside somebody's head but that's in animation, right? Right. We're not going to do that in a, in a, what's the opposite?

[00:13:01] What do they call real movies rather than non animated? What do they call them? Action. Movies. I mean, Yeah. Live action. Live action. We're not going to, we're not going to cut open somebody's heart like it's a, we're trying to figure out what's going on. Right.

[00:13:20] And that's, that's the challenge and you know, reading that when I read this script that I was proofreading for somebody. It was all the, it was the instructor, it was the director's instructions that the screenwriter. The screenwriter's instructions that the director is then going

[00:13:41] to have to bring out of the actor. So I'm guessing that you were the screenwriter and the director for the guy that was playing the adoptee. Yeah. Yes. I was the screenwriter. I was the cinematographer. I was the director. We use some which guy as well.

[00:14:04] I mean basically, basically. It was a very small crew. It was just to see what I could do with a story like that, my story. And yeah, so I didn't know if I was even going to do anything

[00:14:22] more than, than, than what you saw, but the reaction that I have gotten from it was so overwhelming and I knew for myself, let alone for anybody else, but for myself, I knew that I wanted to tell my whole story and hopes to help other people. Yeah.

[00:14:40] So what, what did the taking yourself out of, what did taking yourself out of the writing or out of the cinematography or out of the film? What, what taking yourself out? What did that do for you? How did that impact you? How was that? Right. Yeah.

[00:15:04] So it was very emotional, not, not so much the writing part was emotional for me, especially when, when I, when the character reads the letter, that was very emotional because that was more or less a direct, I'd taken bits

[00:15:25] of pieces from my birth mother's letters and I'd put them in there. So that was very emotional. But the filming aspect wasn't that emotional for me. That was just another day on the job for me. Like I was just kind of just locked in ready to work.

[00:15:40] But then when it came time to edit the film, that's when I kind of like kind of all was a lot, a lot of emotion came up while editing it. Is you reliving it? Yeah, I'm really living your own.

[00:15:57] I guess I'm reliving it, but I'm also seeing it from an outside point of view. Even though it's my story and I went through it. I'm seeing it from a different perspective instead of being the one that is in it because sometimes

[00:16:11] it's hard to even though that you're living this event and, and you know, whatever as traumatic as it may be seeing it from another point of view, at least for me was, was just as hard as, as when I was in that moment. So it was eye opening.

[00:16:38] It was, it was just hard. It was very hard to. It's hard to. Yeah, it was it was hard to watch myself quote unquote myself go through that, especially reading, hearing that letter being read. And obviously the music helps and everything convey that that stuff.

[00:17:07] And obviously I was trying to go for that emotion, but it is still without any of that. It's still very emotional to me. So yeah. What did that give you? I think it gave me a sense of closure in a way,

[00:17:27] closure in the sense of I understood that as hard as it was for me, it was also hard for my parents. It wasn't as simple as I thought it was because I only saw it from my point of view.

[00:17:46] And I obviously talked to my parents about it before I made the film and and I wanted to get their side of it and I put in as much as I could in like the short amount of time because it wasn't the full length version.

[00:18:04] But yeah, I saw it from their point of view too and it made me understand them more as well as well. And did you give you a different perspective on your birth mother as well? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:18:32] I think for me the short version, I think I had mentioned to you that I hadn't even gone back and read all of the letters that she had given me. I only read a handful of them at the point in time when I made the short film.

[00:18:51] And those are the pieces that I kind of just put into the film. But going back and doing the feature film version, I went back and read all those and I felt so connected to her. I still feel connected to her, but I feel so connected to her

[00:19:08] and I understand why she did it and how hard it was for her. I mean, it was not easy in the slightest sense and she didn't want to give me up. And she she was I talked to her not too long ago about this

[00:19:27] and she was like if I could have I would have kept you but I knew at that point in time, I wasn't okay. But you I found you the perfect family and that's all that I saw that I care about. Wow. So it's it's it's a lot.

[00:19:51] And just doing all of this doing all this research and making it and writing it. It's very it's been very eye-opening to me. And I feel like that's why I say that it's been also very healing for me. Yeah.

[00:20:04] Can you can you share a little bit about the connection thing? Because when we spoke the other week, you know, that was kind of what I got some very similar things. Me reading a letter from a birth mother to a social worker

[00:20:27] you're leaning you're reading your personal ethics. It's from her to you and there's there's plenty of them. Can can you explain what the connection or there because I realized it's tricky because it's a feeling. But can you paint paint a picture of that of the connection

[00:20:57] or describe it given letting off the hook. I said it's hard to point towards it. I appreciate it so you can you can go at it whichever way you want. Yeah. I'm just trying to think what's the best way to describe it.

[00:21:17] I mean, as you know, reading something. So it's in handwriting. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It's in handwriting and and and reading something that that you are connected to biologically. And whether and at this point in time, I think

[00:21:43] and at this point in time in my life, I'd never met her. I didn't even know that she existed. I didn't know that she wanted anything to do with me. Reading reading the handful of the letters the first time. I felt connected. I felt seen.

[00:22:02] I felt like I had somebody but at the same time I felt abandoned. I felt like I didn't know where to turn to for the first time I saw her handwriting. I saw a piece of her. And I didn't know if I would ever see her.

[00:22:22] I didn't know if I'd ever even know her besides what was in those letters. And that that was tough. That was that was tough in the beginning for me. I mean, it still is tough for me not not saying it isn't

[00:22:40] but at the beginning it was it was very shocking. It was very like the brakes all of a sudden came on and everybody flew to the front of the bus almost. Yeah, like. Yeah. One of the things that's been coming to my mind recently is

[00:23:03] that I think I heard somewhere. The ego defined as a as a as the separate self. And I was thinking about our feeling. Not not just use of my but not just use of my but our feeling as an adoption of separation and how that's

[00:23:32] if ego is separate the separate self and everybody's got one hours is turbocharged. Yeah. And why I'm why I'm bringing that up is because you used the word connection. I'm seeing connection as the the ending of separation. Yeah. So we go from a me to a we.

[00:24:09] And it's not just we is at least in my sense. It's not just we and my birth mother but it's we and my adopted parents my adopted brother. We all went through this together in some way. Friends family, you know, it doesn't matter.

[00:24:30] I mean if anybody knows your story and you're open with them there's a connection with at least in my my personal what happened. There was a connection where everybody kind of came together and was there. Yeah. And I would say it can go even further than that.

[00:24:55] To connection. Like we we hit we had jumped on the zoom and dive straight in. You talked a little bit about logistics of moving and buying a house and stuff like that. And I'm still slightly shell shopped from this meeting this morning.

[00:25:20] But I said we can go to like there's something that that's kind of magical about connection between adopters who can pretty much go straight into that. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's there's a connection that we all have that that you know I mean obviously I'm sure people could

[00:25:41] figure it out but there's a connection between all of us adoptees that bring us all together and that we all have like the an understanding of one another. And it's bigger than that as well. Sharing like my big my big learning around this area

[00:26:00] started whenever it was 22,000 no 10 15 years ago maybe we sat around I sat around the table with eight people and we shared our stories you know and not everybody is going to listen to this podcast is going to make a film.

[00:26:26] Some people might some people might make a film. Some people might write a might write the story. Some people might have already written story and it it I did this adoption this grief thing that I did with Pamela, Pamela Karen over towards the end of the

[00:26:51] seven seven sessions. I wrote a letter to my personal so and there's a bit of story in there right so we're not it's not about the film, the book, the letter. It's it's about the sharing you know the profound

[00:27:13] thing that you took we took we started with the sharing and people crying in the room sharing with strangers and then we kind of then we went upstream to the making of it but it seems like the whole thing is all the little processes

[00:27:32] involved all the steps along the way of being about healing and the most profound ones you know it's is in the sharing and then you also talked about the editing editing process because your yeah have you got a feel why that was bigger

[00:28:01] that was the most of you got a feeling for why that might have been the most the biggest back I think because I was so honest and vulnerable I didn't hide anything I just told my truth in the nine and a half minutes and I think people

[00:28:28] I think everybody resonates with the truth no matter what it's about and when when the truth is involved I think people are more drawn to it and more open and more open to receiving the feeling yeah so that's just my that's just my

[00:28:50] opinion the truth and it's the voice a strange thing just pops into my head as they sometimes do so I've been watching this series about the Tour de France on Netflix and it's dubbed right so if they're interviewing an English writer or

[00:29:11] American writer or Australian writer I've seen that writer speaking in English but they they they interviewed this French guy who is a while you know come is a while it is an old campaign is an ex-cyclist himself he you know his

[00:29:32] whole heart is on his sleeve he's an ex-rider that makes he wanted the best for his French team on French soil and it and it's the whole thing right and then they've got this guy doing the voiceover who sinks the lip sync

[00:29:55] is pretty it is the prick the lip sync is pretty tight but there's a there's none of the depth there's none of the soul there's none of their tone there's none of their passion there's it's like it's like going to Universal Studios and you know the

[00:30:23] fascia for the for the saloon you know there's the western town you know it's got the saloon it's got the police station it's got the jail it's got the undertakers and they're all just facies aren't they you know you look around the back of them and

[00:30:36] that's what it's like and to me that's the polar opposite of what you're talking about the depth of the truth and I guess I'm guessing that it's actually in there editing is the focus on it the focus on it I mean you're more

[00:31:06] focused on editing when I when we're editing we're kind of more focused like if I'm right a letter I just get it out get it out boomf you know okay but then when I'm reading it back I'm looking for the typos I'm looking for the

[00:31:24] apostrophes you know whatever and I'm thinking well maybe that's what happened for for Quentin this film is that focus I think a couple things happen yes super focused when editing a lot of the focus and emotion comes out in the editing but that being said a lot has

[00:31:45] to do with the actors and the day that you're shooting but I was just thinking like about your tour de France thing and the facade you can you can write the best script you could you could write that guy's whole monologue but

[00:32:07] if you don't have the right person behind the voice or or the right person narrating it or you know whatever what I'm trying to say is that if I wasn't directing the piece like the short film it wouldn't have been the same thing it might not have had

[00:32:28] the same connection but since I knew exactly how it should have played out and it was my story and and it had that soul to it they had that soul so and that's what and that's where it started and then the editing process

[00:32:45] made things a lot easier because it already had that built in I just had to go in and tweak little things and put some music over it and off it went so that's where really all starts is with your writing soul into the writing and if you're not

[00:33:04] adopted or if you're not you know I can't write a film about being an electrical engineer I mean I could but nothing would be correct and same with directing if you're making a film about adoption but you're not adopted well that that emotion is

[00:33:20] not going to come through that feeling I mean as good as directors you can be that you didn't you never went through that now the editing process you don't have to be technically adopted to to make something powerful but it definitely helps yeah definitely helps so how

[00:33:44] of your emotions shifted well I'm kind of we've we've talked we've gone kind of depth into the process if we now step back and we look at that you there's a before a during and an after right so far we've been looking at the during

[00:34:06] how did they how are the most how does the before and after picture yeah well before before I was very angry and I had a lot of resentment towards my parents not my birth mother not my birth mom but towards my parents in the way that that

[00:34:30] things had played out with giving me these letters and and things of that nature but now after like I was saying I see it I see it from their point of view and I see what they were trying to do and then what did they do then

[00:34:51] what was it that you were the did they so I should remember this but did they keep letters what yeah so so um I'll just give a little backstory here so I was adopted at two months old from the US Virgin Islands and my whole life you know

[00:35:13] growing up nope yeah I always knew that I was adopted never that wasn't a question turned 18 they come into my room and say we have this envelope it's full of letters from your birth mother read them if you like or don't

[00:35:34] and at that time for me I was just graduated high school I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life I felt so lost and confused and then on top of that of getting all this I just was a wreck I just fell apart so

[00:35:49] I was very angry for them not even telling me that that this person was even still alive or were still talking to them I mean they would write letters to each other my whole life until I was 18 at least once like my birth mother would write one of

[00:36:12] them they would write one at least once a year if not twice a year and I didn't know any of this and I had things in my room I still have stuff here in this house that they said that was from my grandparents but was

[00:36:27] really from my birth mother and birth grandparents so all that stuff I was just like why hide this why lie why not just tell me the truth so I was very angry and doing this film I feel like I've kind of

[00:36:49] I've kind of seen the light at the end of the tunnel and or I've seen why they why they did it the way that they did it and I don't blame them anymore for doing it that way and I and I realized how hard it was for

[00:37:07] them to even do any of it and all of it and it's still hard for them I'm making a film about not just my journey but their journey as well I showed them the film when I got done with it I didn't even tell them

[00:37:23] that I was making it I just came over and said I have something to show you guys and I mean they responded to it very well but they were very emotional about it because it's not just me who had affected it affected all of us affected all

[00:37:46] of us so before very angry just to come back full circle to your question very angry and not understanding and upset and now I understand I think I still hold some resentment I'm not angry or upset but I think I still hold some

[00:38:07] resentment but I feel as if my way of healing is making these films and I'm starting to let go of some of that resentment and some of these feelings that I've been having since I've kind of found all this out and it's been over 10

[00:38:26] years or whatever it's been and maybe I'll never get rid of it maybe that'll be something I'll always carry with me but this is my healing process this is my way of confronting it have you heard much about like left brain right brain differences stuff like that

[00:38:55] I haven't looked too much into it yeah now because have you seen that there's some adoptee coloring books and stuff out there oh no I did not know that now for adults right okay people people it's it's as they say it's a thing

[00:39:16] my wife was she donated a kidney and so she was going to be not going out for a lot you know she was when she was recovering and and one of the friends bought a coloring book for adults and it's just a black and white book and

[00:39:40] you had some different colors and they've got some stuff for there's equivalent adoptee ones and it's quite yeah so some of them got lettering on them and it says thanks for the trauma and you you color the color you know they've got little circles and bits to

[00:40:14] color in and the right brain stuff is all the traumas in the left brain oh okay interesting well they've spoken the language around the trauma as well I think I might have this wrong the language and what the meaning the meaning maker right that I think that's

[00:40:45] and and what's wrong the inner critic that's definitely in that right but right right brain is associated with the creative pursuits and putting your stuff out into the world making the film and doing a coloring book or creating the coloring book in the first

[00:41:06] place you know these are all or doing or dancing do you know I mean it's all right brain stuff there's no there isn't a reason for dancing it's just people do it for that do the hell of it and so yeah the creative but you're engaging a

[00:41:21] different part of your brain and that's what you're you're turning your attention away from the left brain when a lot of traumas into the right brain where there's more open it's that space for space for stuff to come out space space for stuff

[00:41:41] to like what I what I'm doing with the somatic experience is similar to what you're doing with the filmmaking because it's an action it's not just a it's not just talking it's doing something yeah it's doing something it's a whole body whole body

[00:42:03] thing and so the the end of the end of blame and a drop off in anger dropping of anger perhaps some kind of residual resentment yeah yeah I hope I can let more that go yeah letting it go yeah what does that mean to you because

[00:42:43] yeah I think letting it go just means like just being okay with how things happened I had a rather than holding on to it right I am I'll just say this on my point of the I had somebody pass away and I held

[00:43:11] on to resentment that I didn't answer the phone one night and if I and if I would have picked up would they still be here but I can't hold on to that anymore and I've let that go but so through my filmmaking and

[00:43:35] through my looking back at everything and seeing it from a different perspective I hope to let all of that go for the most part is just say you know what it's okay it happened yeah I can I can I'm happy yeah everything

[00:43:58] worked out in the end yeah it's something like that that that's what letting go of resentment means so so I did this I did a solo podcast the other day on the back of that post I did on Facebook right so I

[00:44:15] put this put this post on Facebook last year and it came up on memories and I shared it again and I said none of us are born believing that we're not good enough it's a belief that we pick up along the way what if

[00:44:37] we could let it go mixed reaction to that the the the ones that challenged it was about as if well reasons why right reasons for holding on to the stuff breathing and I didn't make it and there's two bits I'm saying what if we could let

[00:45:16] it go so there's hope right what if and just what if you know what if what if we could let what if we could let that go and on the flip of that I am categorically not saying that we're holding onto stuff on purpose yeah no we would

[00:45:40] not we were not we are not choosing we're not choosing to we're not choosing to hold onto stuff no no not on purpose especially yeah we're not I don't I don't believe that anyway yeah I don't I don't think that we yeah because that's a lot of

[00:45:58] baggage then that we got to carry around with us why would we know we wouldn't yeah but we're not choosing right that's the that's the whole thing it it's it's some hidden conditioning with insiders that channel brings you up to the next question I'll for you and was

[00:46:17] was you talked about anger and about the about these letters being that yeah about the truth about letters the truth that the letters being kept from you and he talked about the anger it was was this was this like and did it feel like

[00:46:45] does it feel like now like it was an explosion of pent up stuff was it like a was it like a dam bursting or you know like what do they call like an oil an oil rig you know when they finally strike boom it comes out

[00:47:00] and then I have to get there to try and get that tap the well don't they put the lid on the well before they can get the pipeline to it yeah I know that's a good question I don't I don't know if it was built

[00:47:18] up because I'm thinking back to myself at that point I don't you I don't think it was built up I think I think for me I was just angry at how everything played out I was just like I didn't understand it my parents have always been very

[00:47:45] open and they still are very open people but with this one thing they hit it I just didn't understand it so I blew up in the sense that like so you guys are just like lying to me now like this isn't once again I never

[00:48:01] had anything to do with my birth mother I don't blame her for it wasn't I didn't have any aggression towards her and but I was angry at the fact that I was I was they said that they weren't lying that they just didn't tell me but to me

[00:48:21] that's yeah kind of the same thing yeah they call it in the legal thing because like lying by a mission right so I you know I that's that's why I was so angry I just I didn't understand it I just felt betrayed I just I was like

[00:48:37] what do you mean that you have all of this what do you mean that you've been talking to her what is going on like what is what what is happening right now yeah like you know you almost you feel like your whole world just got flipped upside

[00:48:49] down or is like spinning and like you just like trying to figure it out yeah and I and I'm still trying to figure out everything and so I just it's it's an interesting one really because you know we're trying to figure out our emotions right you know

[00:49:07] one harm you've got like you've got you got the I think and me too right you know why do you think I'm asking all these questions no for sure and you know that you got the anger you got the we've got the

[00:49:22] emotional stuff and we've got the you know left and a lot of sorry you would call them lieutenant we call lieutenant lieutenant logic and I can't think of it army right that begins with that yeah field field Marshall feeling yeah field Marshall feeling and lieutenant or left

[00:49:41] and that logic I'm wondering if you if you hadn't had the reaction that you did would you have made the film I don't think so I do not think so I think I think a part of me maybe better off maybe like in a better

[00:50:14] space you know all of this is weighed heavily on me and it's always heavily on me yeah but you're still a young guy right like yeah I'm 31 I'll be yeah I haven't I haven't interviewed that many young adoptees we tend to be old

[00:50:33] farts like me right and even older you know but and we we come out of the fog when we come out of the fog it happens when it it happens when it happens we can't kind of make it happen and for me was a teddy bear at 40

[00:50:58] for you it was a letter at 18 18 yeah and yeah we're all on a different path and we're in different paths and yet yeah it's different paths but the emotions all the same they're remarkably similar we all share you know more or less the same feelings

[00:51:20] yeah but I interviewed a therapist yesterday who's not an adoptee that has worked with the doctors and she was talking about gender differences with this right so as guys apparently we you know we've got two acceptable acceptable emotional states I think

[00:51:43] she called it yeah angry and horny you know um so you know we only talk obviously about anger on the show if we're talking guide um so so for me there's a there's a stunning depth to this all this for for for you but

[00:52:10] more importantly you see that right my opinion is it's not actually it's your it's your your take on it and your I was after I finished talking about this and talking to the to Corey or did the podcast recording with yesterday I was talking about

[00:52:38] the distilling healing down right you know what is healing and we have some very long we have some very long conversations on this podcast about that I wish there's some shorter one the but shifting perspective a huge shift in perspective with an emotional and emotionally charged shift in

[00:53:17] perspective not just a shift in perspective like um like a shift in perspective like a new way of seeing things so a trivial example right oh I now know a quicker way to drive to work right so or something a profound shifting perspective with a lot of

[00:53:43] emotional charge around it and a shift from less from you know anger to less anger or no anger or and you know some people would say resentment is a small version of anger um you know I think what I think of frustration this something I know that's that's

[00:54:09] what I think of frustration as quite small compared to anger but other people think of it a lot closer so you know if it was out 10 I would say angus saying is 10 I would have I would put frustration that maybe three right

[00:54:28] so it's that's a lot you know I don't want too much of that you know but other people so well it's bigger than that Simon actually you know this is this is barely concealed anger your your verse your frustration actually it's pretty big it's more like

[00:54:47] a compared to anger but so different I think we all got different take takes on this but healing is seems to be to me is profound shifts in perspective with an emotional charge and a breaking down to break through so it

[00:55:13] doesn't start off well no no not at all it doesn't start off well hopefully it ends a little bit you know to use your words to go to the peace or peace thing you know it's a shift from anger and anger to peace or lower levels of

[00:55:39] anger what do you make of that I mean I well which part are we talking about the anger of the side of things or the healing which ever you pick which is you think is the most important I mean to me healing is the most important

[00:56:03] part because healing is something that is the only way that we can all I want to use the right word here I'm blanking so how would you describe I've said heeding is a profound in profound shifting perspective with an emotional charge is kind of a

[00:56:32] sentence on it but and I would agree with that almost 100% I think healing is healing is an understanding from it's tricky it that you know this is this is a very tricky thing because it is everybody's different you know indeed indeed for me I'll just speak for myself

[00:57:02] so healing is a feeling of understanding for me my feeling of understanding so I understand why how you know what the what the coming to turn you know an understanding of coming to terms with this was the outcome for me that is healing to me is coming is

[00:57:38] understanding why things happen now that's hard to do you know that's well we're talking about this we're talking about this before we hit record only yeah I think it comes to us I don't think we can make it happen no and I don't think that we

[00:58:09] can make it happen and I think that's why I say it's more of an for me it's more of an understanding it's it's finally understanding the whole situation the whole picture you know and what's the emotion that comes what's the emotion that comes with

[00:58:25] the understanding I think the or emotions well peace I mean obviously letting go whatever that emotion would I think peace would seem to if I put peace and letting go letting goes an action and pieces pieces of state or it's a feeling yeah I don't know I'm really

[00:59:04] trying to be able to cook in it I might be able to win maybe I'm overthinking it but well both of them so I'm the one asking the question so I'll take the blame for you no you're fine that I think to me anger is more

[00:59:18] something easier to kind of understand because for everybody anger is different anger is let out differently anger is a different expression you know some people their anger is to do bad things to people you know some anger you know some when sometimes when you get angry

[00:59:38] you cry sometimes when you get angry you don't speak to the person so on and so forth so for that like I think anger is completely different in everybody and I don't think that there's one way to ever diagnose anger but healing yeah

[01:00:00] I don't want to say that we all go through the same things of healing but I think we all go through the same steps of healing does that make sense like we all in some way or form we all either forgive somebody or we look

[01:00:24] within ourselves to heal or we try to understand what happened to heal and maybe I'm not correct yeah right it can be all of that I'm just saying I think we all go through that in our own ways kind of like anger but I think

[01:00:44] anger is more personal to the person as well as healing is more we all go through it and I think that's why adoptees we all can kind of you know we all feel connected in a certain way because we're all we've all kind of gone

[01:01:04] through this like weird healing together not maybe not not fully healed maybe not healed at all but we're all on that journey to heal yeah I don't know I hope I hope that makes sense I hope we can only share it does it does it does

[01:01:25] to me okay it's I'm just conscious of the conscious of time is there anything else that you'd like to share that I've not asked you about coming nothing the only thing I'd like to say is thank you for having me on you well if any

[01:01:56] one of your listeners is interested in supporting my feature film being made I have a donation button on my website if you just go to NovaCatFilms.com I don't know how it works in the UK can you guys access US websites okay I

[01:02:17] wasn't sure and I'll put a link in the show notes because a lot of people are walking walking the dogs are ironing or driving me in for sure for sure yeah appreciate that but yeah if you want to donate and support and see a film about adoption by

[01:02:33] somebody that's adopted that's the goal and I hope to help people and I hope that helps and they can watch the trailer and not see the thing yes the trailer is on the website as well as we watch it as for free so

[01:02:48] go over and watch it and you can kind of get a sense of what the film will be about and yeah the theme of it brilliant brilliant thank you so much I this was awesome this was amazing appreciated so much you are very welcome I loved it too

[01:03:07] and yeah where did the name Quinn come from when I honestly so what I've heard my parents wanted to name me Patrick I'm not Irish whatsoever so everybody always thinks they got red hair and so on so forth but they wanted to make

[01:03:38] Patrick when I was growing up a lot of kids were being named Patrick and they were like well we don't want yeah we don't want there to be another Patrick so we'll take his middle my middle name was Quinn so my first name now is

[01:03:53] Quinn and my middle name now is Patrick so that's kind of like the quick and easy version of it my birth father's name is Quinn so wow I didn't spot it I didn't spot it at all I was just looking down at my notes and it jumped off

[01:04:18] the page and we spoke yeah there's a connection there's a connection thanks Quinn thank you thank you well thanks for listening we'll speak to you again later bye