If you're in the muck, keep moving forward. You can move on. Listen in as birth mother Kristy describes how she got inspired and let her inspire you. Great life lessons. Great episode.
Connect with Kristy here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristy-holt-b36873339/
Guests and the host are not (unless mentioned) licensed pscyho-therapists and speak from their own opinion only. Seek qualified advice if you need help.
[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Kristy Holt. Looking forward to our conversation today Kristy.
[00:00:12] Yeah me too, thank you for having me on.
[00:00:15] So Kristy's done a little bit of listening to other episodes of the podcast before she's given on, which always I love to hear that.
[00:00:24] So thank you for doing that, thank you for making time to do that and for your little contribution to increasing our statistics here.
[00:00:34] I love to learn off other people as well, so I just find it fascinating and I get a lot from it as well,
[00:00:42] listening to especially the adoptees as a birth mum. And it was nice to learn a little bit about you as well.
[00:00:47] Yeah, and you're still here. Despite what you learn. Yeah, so it is all about learning.
[00:00:59] And because I'm really into learning too, it often throws me when other people aren't into learning.
[00:01:12] Yeah. And so like, if I could have a sticker that I, if I stick on my forehead to look at, or a sticker on my mirror to look at,
[00:01:22] look at in the, on the bathroom mirror while I'm shaving every morning, it would be to say,
[00:01:27] don't expect everybody to be like you, Simon.
[00:01:30] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can relate to that. Yeah.
[00:01:34] Yeah. Yeah. Because we do, right? We just, and then we're, we're, we're appalled by the way people, this is me, right?
[00:01:45] So then I'm, I'm appalled by the people, the way that people, I don't know, turn up late to the pub, you know?
[00:01:51] But you know, like it's, we go through life, I think, expecting a lot of us go through, I think, expecting other people to be like us and they're not.
[00:02:02] Mm-hmm.
[00:02:03] And that, or we were just talking about that one with the technology stuff and how people on IT call centers seem to have ice rather than blood in their veins.
[00:02:14] Yeah.
[00:02:14] And the question is, how, how, how are they like that? And, and I guess I, I would like to be like that when dealing with tech, but I, I wouldn't like to be somebody that's going through life
[00:02:33] without heart, you know, coming at it from a full on left brain robot type approach, you know?
[00:02:42] Yeah.
[00:02:42] That wouldn't be much fun, would it?
[00:02:44] No, that's why I'm glad that I got to experience life before technology, I suppose.
[00:02:49] Yeah.
[00:02:50] You know, being a child and being able to go, you know, playing out, we have a lot of children like the Xbox now, don't they?
[00:02:55] Yeah.
[00:02:55] And the computers and I think that played a massive part in changing society. Technology took over some of it for the better, some of it maybe took over a little bit too much, I think.
[00:03:07] Yeah.
[00:03:08] Yeah.
[00:03:09] Yeah.
[00:03:09] So thriving, what does thriving mean to, to you?
[00:03:18] Well, it's, it's really hard one to answer that because when I think of thriving, you want to be at your best. But how do you get to thriving to be at your best when you have had a life of trauma?
[00:03:34] Yeah.
[00:03:34] So, yeah, trauma has played a massive part into my life. So I am a birth mom, but trauma actually started in my life before I came a mom from about the age of five of 10.
[00:03:49] And so there was a lot of processing in that. A lot of things happened from a young age. And my dad was a drunk, my mom got us out of there. She kept us very safe in the end, you know, it took a long time to get out, but there was a lot of violence.
[00:04:04] And that, I carried through my teenage years that I suppose shaped me into somebody that I really wasn't. I had to fit into going from a private area into a council estate, shall we say.
[00:04:18] You know, my mom dressed me in big frilly dresses and when we moved to this council estate, I had to fit in. So there was a lot of that growing up. And I suppose I took them, them traumas into adulthood.
[00:04:33] Very young adulthood from the age of 16 to 21. I ended up in a domestic violence relationship, which is how I became a birth mother. So thriving didn't come easy.
[00:04:45] Thriving only just started coming, I suppose, in my 30s. And that was when I started taking an understanding of myself, who I am, what I'd have been through, what had happened to me.
[00:04:59] And adoption, adoption only, I only started taking an interest in that in three years ago. And it's now become one of my passions.
[00:05:08] So I feel like, don't get me wrong, in between all that, I have worked full time. I went into construction. I did my MVQs in business and management. And I suppose I did feel like I was thriving. I was getting to a good place then, but there was still a bit of an empty hole.
[00:05:24] Empty hole. There still is an empty hole. And I think it's a progressive thing through life to be able to thrive. When will I get to that point where I say I am really thriving?
[00:05:34] Empty hole. I'm not too sure. It's still ongoing. Yeah.
[00:05:41] There's a lot there.
[00:05:45] Sorry. There's a lot to my story as well.
[00:05:49] That's good. It's good that there's a lot there, right? It means that I'm not struggling for questions.
[00:05:53] I'm struggling to which question to ask and to reflect on my own stuff. What's spurred me on?
[00:06:09] And I think it's about, for me, I didn't know it was about role models until I heard a role model.
[00:06:25] Right.
[00:06:26] I heard somebody and I thought, that's impressive. That takes the biscuit. And if that person can get through that, I can get through my stuff because my stuff is shit.
[00:06:51] Yeah. So I can relate to that totally. I like to give birth mums, especially the younger birth mums, a little bit of hope. A little bit of, you know what, you'll never forget, but you are allowed to move forward.
[00:07:05] What you're feeling is, you know, it's real. Give them a bit of validation. And that all comes from my experiences.
[00:07:14] So when I first started getting support only three years ago, and I've been a birth mum for nearly 20 years now, only three years ago, and I walked into one of these, this first ever group of birth parents,
[00:07:27] and not knowing what to expect, but finding myself surrounded by young mums that were telling me stories exactly the same as what I'd have gone through 20 years ago.
[00:07:40] And it's, I soon came to realise that nothing had changed and not much had changed.
[00:07:47] So yeah, that's what I spend my time doing now, trying to break barriers and give these mums just a little bit of hope.
[00:07:56] And I know that some of the listeners will be like, well, you know, some of these mums might have done bad things.
[00:08:05] But for me, when I say breaking barriers, I'm not talking about the ones that have been violent or, you know, really hurt their children,
[00:08:14] because we know that there is people out there like that.
[00:08:18] I'm talking about people being a victim like me.
[00:08:22] I was in a domestic violence relationship for five years.
[00:08:27] It was very hard to get out of and there was no support.
[00:08:30] I'm talking about mums with mental illness, who in fact would struggle bringing up a child,
[00:08:37] but did all their contact need to be stopped?
[00:08:40] And we've got mums that are born with disability.
[00:08:47] So I like to give a voice for them people, you know, not everybody's a bad person.
[00:08:54] Like me, I was struck in a situation.
[00:08:57] I got out of that situation and I always, some people might have heard my story before,
[00:09:03] but I do have an 18 year old at home who I was allowed to keep only eight months after the final leaving of my children being removed.
[00:09:11] And they were full blood sibling.
[00:09:13] It was the same thing, domestic violence relationship.
[00:09:17] He was allowed to stay though, because there'd been no violence for 12 months.
[00:09:22] I know it sounds crazy.
[00:09:24] I'm very grateful every day that I've had 18 years with my son with no intervention from social services.
[00:09:31] I got out when he was six months old, a different social worker, completely different to the first one that I had.
[00:09:38] It went above and beyond for me.
[00:09:41] Got me into a very safe place with some absolutely amazing support that I've never had previous in them five years before that.
[00:09:52] So, yeah, sorry, I think I've gone off.
[00:09:54] I've gone off topic, haven't I?
[00:09:56] Not really.
[00:09:57] I'll take you back to the hope thing though.
[00:10:02] So what is it?
[00:10:07] What's hope for you?
[00:10:10] Hope for me?
[00:10:14] So the hope for me is to try and change some perspectives on birth family.
[00:10:22] And to be able to show others that they don't need to suffer like I did.
[00:10:27] And I mean, like, with no support, it was hard to get people to understand me.
[00:10:35] I never had anybody that understood me for many, many years.
[00:10:41] And I needed that.
[00:10:42] I needed somebody to validate what I've been through.
[00:10:45] I wanted for so many years before I even got to meet another family like me, another birth parent, just somebody, somebody that could relate to me.
[00:10:56] So, yeah, if I can give back in this way, I feel like I'm getting something from it.
[00:11:04] I feel like I'm achieving something, not just for myself, but for others and maybe changing their life a little bit of how they see their future and better ways of trying to handle it and navigate through these really dark times.
[00:11:17] And it's not just the beginning.
[00:11:19] It's lifelong.
[00:11:21] It is a lifelong journey.
[00:11:24] And, you know, I see parents that come at the very beginning when they're either just going through care proceedings or the care proceedings have just ended and they're so lost.
[00:11:35] But they do go off and it might be a few years down the line, they'll come back and they've got several questions.
[00:11:42] They've had time to reflect on the journey, what's happened to them.
[00:11:47] And they want to learn more about themselves and others.
[00:11:51] There's a lot that comes from it.
[00:11:53] And I think the hope is a gradual thing.
[00:11:57] And birth parents have to be in the right mind to start accepting, you know, certain things, certain things.
[00:12:04] In fact, it takes years for them to understand.
[00:12:07] So, yeah, I think just giving that hope and encouraging others to use the voice.
[00:12:13] Yeah.
[00:12:17] So I was that, all of that.
[00:12:22] Yeah.
[00:12:23] All of that.
[00:12:24] And I was reflecting on why I think this way as I was listening to you.
[00:12:35] But what I was thinking of was, so 20 years ago, there's no support.
[00:12:44] Right.
[00:12:44] Yeah.
[00:12:45] And three years ago, you go into a room of birth moms and you show them that 17 years after the removal of your child, you're still there.
[00:13:09] And somehow you figured it out.
[00:13:14] And something within you has got you through that.
[00:13:23] So to me, it's light.
[00:13:25] It's light.
[00:13:25] It's light at the end of the tunnel.
[00:13:27] It's, you know, you said the darkest hours, right?
[00:13:30] So it's light in those darkest hours.
[00:13:32] It's hope that, you know, I can get through this.
[00:13:36] And the reason that I think it landed for me like that was, I think the worst thing that's happened to me in my life was a loss of my best friend 24 years ago.
[00:13:57] He died.
[00:14:01] And he was, yeah, he died.
[00:14:04] I was going to go into all the details of it.
[00:14:05] He didn't really matter.
[00:14:06] But his wife that he'd been married to for maybe a couple of years, maybe, was 10 weeks pregnant.
[00:14:19] And she had, yeah, she had a terrible time as you might imagine.
[00:14:32] She had a mentor, somebody, another young widow.
[00:14:44] And then when she, so, and then she did it.
[00:14:50] She passed it on.
[00:14:53] Yeah.
[00:14:53] So you want, I think, I want to, I think we need people that have been through the experience that we're going through and come through the other side.
[00:15:08] And that's the ultimate hope.
[00:15:10] So you don't want, you don't want theory.
[00:15:14] I don't want theory.
[00:15:16] I want practice.
[00:15:17] I want, I want an example.
[00:15:19] Yeah.
[00:15:21] And that's why, you know, as I said, I was thinking about why, why, why am I, why am I drawing back particularly out?
[00:15:31] And, but we want to learn from somebody that's, you know, ahead of us on the journey.
[00:15:38] Yeah.
[00:15:39] Yeah.
[00:15:39] And I wouldn't give that so a bad word.
[00:15:41] Yeah.
[00:15:41] Yeah.
[00:15:42] And we want somebody that's ahead of us on the journey.
[00:15:44] And, and, and the journey could be seen as the life journey, but it also could be the sea, the, the, the, the journey, I think, as well as life or, and, or, I don't know, somebody that's been through is in, in terms of finding themselves.
[00:16:08] Right.
[00:16:09] So they're, they're, they're ahead of us on the, on the, the healing journey, as well as the action on ahead of us on the emotional journey and the kind of the factual journey.
[00:16:22] Do you know what I mean?
[00:16:23] Yeah, definitely.
[00:16:24] It's the, it's, it's the emotional stuff.
[00:16:27] I, and therefore, if I want to learn and I want like me now, I want to learn from somebody that's ahead of me on discovering who we are, somebody who is freer of their trauma bound identity.
[00:16:49] That's who I want to learn from.
[00:16:52] Hmm.
[00:16:53] Yeah.
[00:16:54] Yeah.
[00:16:55] So I found it wasn't, so I went to that group.
[00:16:58] And then after that, I was invited down to Westminster to talk.
[00:17:01] And it was with another group of birth parents that I'd never met before.
[00:17:05] And it was the first time I actually met Angela Fraser-Wicks, now an MBA.
[00:17:11] Um, so she's a very similar story to mine.
[00:17:15] Um, she's just actually recently been in reunion.
[00:17:18] And, but because I met her when we was talking in Westminster, like it was anxious and a really hard day as it was.
[00:17:26] Um, and I was holding it together.
[00:17:28] And Angela's just said a little bit of her story, not much, but it was enough to put a lump in my store, my throat and go, Oh my goodness.
[00:17:38] I was.
[00:17:38] And there's somebody in the same room as me that has experienced the exact same thing and near enough, the exact same thing as me.
[00:17:48] And that woman now is, is my inspiration.
[00:17:52] Um, I take so much from Angela, her strength, um, the way she talks, how powerful she is, and, and the way that she expresses herself.
[00:18:03] you know
[00:18:05] we can all own up to
[00:18:07] where our wrongs were
[00:18:09] in it all
[00:18:10] and we can have this open conversation
[00:18:13] about it as well
[00:18:14] and we can also look at it down the line
[00:18:17] of how things have changed
[00:18:19] for us, where we are in life
[00:18:21] now and how did that happen
[00:18:24] and I think
[00:18:25] a lot of people should take a lot
[00:18:26] away from that
[00:18:29] does that make sense?
[00:18:31] Yeah, so Andrew
[00:18:39] Fraser Wicks is a birth mum, clearly
[00:18:41] She is, yeah
[00:18:44] she's all over the news
[00:18:45] I'm sure many of your listeners will know who Angela is as well
[00:18:49] she is chair of trustees
[00:18:51] with Family Rights Group
[00:18:53] I'm actually on
[00:18:55] FRG's Family Rights Group panel
[00:18:57] so we're on a panel
[00:18:58] members together
[00:18:59] she's done a lot of work, hell of a lot more work
[00:19:02] than me, she's been doing it for about
[00:19:04] 15 years now
[00:19:06] my only regret with Angela is that I never met her earlier
[00:19:10] because I think that we would have been a team
[00:19:12] and my life wouldn't have been
[00:19:15] as dark, a feel as grim
[00:19:17] if I knew that there was somebody else out there
[00:19:19] just like me
[00:19:20] and while she was there all along
[00:19:21] I was just looking in the wrong places
[00:19:23] or maybe I just never knew where to look
[00:19:25] in them places
[00:19:26] so it wasn't until I self-referred myself
[00:19:30] to pack you care
[00:19:32] when things started to change for me
[00:19:35] and I got that support
[00:19:36] and I got that understanding
[00:19:38] and I got that validation of what I was going through
[00:19:42] without that
[00:19:43] and most probably COVID
[00:19:45] because COVID played a big part in me having a breakdown
[00:19:48] and me reaching out for that support
[00:19:50] would I be here now talking to you?
[00:19:53] would I be open to talking about adoption
[00:19:56] the way that I have done in the last three years?
[00:19:59] I don't think I would have done
[00:20:01] and all it took was for a door to open
[00:20:03] and me find a charity that wanted to help me
[00:20:06] which opened other doors for me
[00:20:08] to meet some amazing people
[00:20:10] who I could relate to
[00:20:11] and find the strength myself
[00:20:14] to be open and honest about my situation
[00:20:18] without that I wouldn't have been able to do it
[00:20:29] Why do we wait for it to get so bad?
[00:20:34] Because I don't think
[00:20:36] unless you've been through it
[00:20:38] and I know it's different for you as an adoptee
[00:20:40] the feelings in that are pretty similar
[00:20:44] to what we do go through
[00:20:45] I know it's very different
[00:20:46] I don't know, that's arguable actually
[00:20:50] but I think society
[00:20:53] when we look at adoption as a whole
[00:20:57] society's got so many different perceptions on it
[00:21:00] you know, for me
[00:21:02] adoption is not a one size fits all
[00:21:05] every person that is involved is different
[00:21:08] and has different experiences
[00:21:09] but when you're from outside the adoption world
[00:21:13] we can't change them perceptions
[00:21:15] and we can't change how people react with us
[00:21:18] so close friends
[00:21:21] I had friends for all then 20 years
[00:21:24] very recently
[00:21:26] I decided when I started getting support
[00:21:28] that they weren't actually the people for me
[00:21:30] because they didn't really have that real understanding of me
[00:21:33] some of them did try
[00:21:34] some of them most probably made things a hell of a lot
[00:21:38] my worst former
[00:21:39] and it was starting to realise what was right
[00:21:42] and what was wrong
[00:21:45] and it went until I found that circle
[00:21:47] my circle
[00:21:48] you hear that don't you
[00:21:49] find your circle
[00:21:50] but it took me 20 plus years to find my circle
[00:21:55] yeah
[00:21:57] yeah
[00:22:01] and we're talking about two different things here
[00:22:06] we're talking about the external stuff
[00:22:08] that other people
[00:22:09] and we're talking about the internal stuff
[00:22:12] so how do you see the relative importance of those two
[00:22:16] it all needs to come together
[00:22:21] we need to start changing them perceptions
[00:22:23] but then we need
[00:22:25] in the adoption world as well
[00:22:28] to start
[00:22:31] we know that adoption is multilayered
[00:22:33] we know it's very complex
[00:22:36] but
[00:22:38] I believe that there is ways
[00:22:40] that we can unravel that a little bit
[00:22:42] and let's start treating families individually
[00:22:46] you know
[00:22:48] I was just a victim
[00:22:49] I just needed a little bit of understanding
[00:22:52] and maybe a bit of understanding of my childhood
[00:22:55] and what I've been through
[00:22:56] and what I've come into adulthood
[00:22:57] when I lost my girls
[00:23:00] I was only 19 years old
[00:23:01] so I'm
[00:23:02] I was very very young
[00:23:05] but nobody wanted to question that
[00:23:07] nobody wanted
[00:23:09] it was
[00:23:09] this is it
[00:23:10] you're done
[00:23:11] see you later
[00:23:12] kind of thing
[00:23:14] so what the traumas that came from that
[00:23:16] nobody could have an understanding of it
[00:23:19] so how do we
[00:23:23] without having the lived experience
[00:23:24] to be able to talk about it
[00:23:27] to the public
[00:23:28] how do we change them perceptions
[00:23:31] but doesn't it start within
[00:23:33] does it
[00:23:36] I'd like to think it does
[00:23:38] but does it
[00:23:38] or does it start
[00:23:39] because the government says this
[00:23:41] or else some framework says that
[00:23:45] how people work with us
[00:23:47] I think
[00:23:50] what I mean by start within
[00:23:52] I mean
[00:23:54] we need to do a bit of processing first
[00:23:58] before we
[00:23:58] oh my goodness
[00:23:59] yeah
[00:24:00] but I think
[00:24:00] to help have that process
[00:24:02] you need an understanding
[00:24:04] from others
[00:24:06] to help you guide you through that
[00:24:08] it's such a hard journey
[00:24:10] on your own
[00:24:10] I found it very difficult
[00:24:14] for many many years
[00:24:16] to have an understanding of myself
[00:24:19] and what had actually happened
[00:24:23] but how could somebody have an understanding of me
[00:24:26] if I couldn't understand myself
[00:24:32] yeah it's a complicated one
[00:24:34] it's
[00:24:36] yeah
[00:24:37] I can't answer that
[00:24:42] well
[00:24:45] the idea that there is an answer
[00:24:47] is
[00:24:49] a tricky one
[00:24:51] we're just
[00:24:52] I guess we're just debating it
[00:24:58] something that I heard
[00:25:00] from
[00:25:02] an adoptee
[00:25:03] very early in the show
[00:25:06] she talked about
[00:25:08] so she was big into advocacy
[00:25:10] and she
[00:25:11] she talked about
[00:25:13] if you go anywhere near politicians
[00:25:17] so
[00:25:17] Christy mentioned
[00:25:18] Westminster
[00:25:19] so that's where the House of Parliament
[00:25:20] are in
[00:25:21] in the UK
[00:25:21] so that's where the
[00:25:23] the government hangs out
[00:25:26] she said
[00:25:27] if you go anywhere near politicians
[00:25:29] and
[00:25:29] and
[00:25:29] you've got
[00:25:31] anger
[00:25:32] there's some anger
[00:25:33] they
[00:25:34] they
[00:25:36] cancel you
[00:25:37] I think is the term
[00:25:38] used these days
[00:25:39] yeah
[00:25:39] yeah
[00:25:39] and I can relate to that
[00:25:40] so in my younger days
[00:25:42] and that
[00:25:42] when I was going through the process
[00:25:43] 19 years old
[00:25:45] remember
[00:25:45] I was very frustrated
[00:25:47] I most probably was
[00:25:49] very angry
[00:25:49] and I most probably did shout a lot
[00:25:51] but I was crying
[00:25:53] in trauma
[00:25:54] I was in fight mode
[00:25:56] it was
[00:25:57] but there was no
[00:25:58] then
[00:25:58] there we go again
[00:25:59] there was no understanding
[00:26:00] of why I was in fight mode
[00:26:02] nobody was bothered
[00:26:03] about me being in fight mode
[00:26:05] no
[00:26:06] well
[00:26:06] hopefully things have changed
[00:26:08] a little bit in 19 years
[00:26:10] um
[00:26:11] yeah
[00:26:11] yeah and I suppose
[00:26:13] that's why it took me so long
[00:26:14] to seek out the support as well
[00:26:17] that trust thing
[00:26:19] so when I was in lockdown
[00:26:20] and
[00:26:20] my oldest child
[00:26:22] would have been turning 18
[00:26:23] and I had no understanding
[00:26:24] of adoption
[00:26:25] I didn't know
[00:26:25] what a reunion would be
[00:26:27] if it was going to happen
[00:26:28] how would I go about it
[00:26:30] who was going to get hurt
[00:26:31] in this process
[00:26:32] was I going to get hurt
[00:26:34] was the girls going to get hurt
[00:26:35] all them thoughts
[00:26:36] and then questions
[00:26:38] all raveled into me
[00:26:39] having a mental breakdown
[00:26:41] and I need
[00:26:42] I've spent the last three years
[00:26:43] on a journey of healing
[00:26:46] unraveling
[00:26:47] them things
[00:26:48] of learning
[00:26:53] yeah
[00:26:53] I think I've gone off topic again
[00:26:55] haven't I?
[00:26:55] no
[00:26:55] no not at all
[00:26:56] no
[00:27:14] stemmed from
[00:27:14] you know
[00:27:15] way before the domestic violence
[00:27:17] started
[00:27:17] you know
[00:27:19] growing up
[00:27:20] there was a lot of things
[00:27:21] happened
[00:27:22] and then the DV
[00:27:23] was
[00:27:25] a massive issue
[00:27:27] on its own
[00:27:28] caused me so many problems
[00:27:30] in life
[00:27:30] you know
[00:27:32] being you know
[00:27:33] like
[00:27:35] not having confidence
[00:27:37] and
[00:27:38] I was controlled
[00:27:39] quite a lot
[00:27:40] so
[00:27:42] yeah
[00:27:43] all them things
[00:27:44] that come with domestic violence
[00:27:45] I don't really want to go into it
[00:27:46] all a lot
[00:27:47] but
[00:27:50] yeah
[00:27:50] a hell of a lot
[00:27:51] of rebuilding myself
[00:27:53] I suppose
[00:27:54] so
[00:27:55] when I got away
[00:27:56] from the domestic violence
[00:27:57] and I moved 50 miles away
[00:27:58] with a primer black bin bag
[00:28:00] and a
[00:28:03] you know
[00:28:04] he's in a complete different town
[00:28:05] away from everything
[00:28:07] and I think that's where the change started for me
[00:28:11] not automatically
[00:28:12] not like
[00:28:13] it weren't massive things
[00:28:14] but there was a time where
[00:28:16] so my letterbox got stopped
[00:28:18] I had four years of letterbox
[00:28:20] a social worker helping me write letters
[00:28:22] blah blah blah
[00:28:24] but
[00:28:24] they got stopped
[00:28:25] and then cut a story short
[00:28:26] the adopters found the letters too hurtful
[00:28:29] even though I didn't write the letters
[00:28:31] the social workers wrote them
[00:28:32] and at that time
[00:28:33] I did find some counselling
[00:28:35] with a place called
[00:28:36] After Adoption Yorkshire
[00:28:38] who would know now
[00:28:39] as Pat Uget
[00:28:40] and the guy there
[00:28:42] the counsellor there
[00:28:43] who I know you know well
[00:28:46] he
[00:28:47] said something to me
[00:28:49] and then was
[00:28:50] stuck with me for 15 years
[00:28:52] and it was
[00:28:53] you can move forward
[00:28:56] you can
[00:28:57] look after your child
[00:28:59] put yourself
[00:29:00] and your son first
[00:29:03] wait
[00:29:03] do everything right for you
[00:29:05] and what you need to do for you
[00:29:07] and move forward
[00:29:08] and it was like somebody was giving me that
[00:29:10] I'm allowed
[00:29:11] that permission
[00:29:13] to move forward
[00:29:14] to just let go
[00:29:15] it is what it is
[00:29:16] let go for now
[00:29:17] and move on
[00:29:21] but there were other traumas
[00:29:22] that came into it
[00:29:23] that weren't the only one
[00:29:24] you know
[00:29:24] there were other things
[00:29:25] like you think that social services
[00:29:26] are done now
[00:29:27] and all that story's closed behind you
[00:29:29] it really
[00:29:30] it wasn't
[00:29:32] I'm not going to talk about that today
[00:29:33] that's just a whole
[00:29:34] another story
[00:29:35] but
[00:29:35] there were things
[00:29:36] that I had to battle down
[00:29:37] I had to
[00:29:38] to get where I am now
[00:29:39] I have been through so many experiences
[00:29:41] through social care
[00:29:45] I suppose it shaped me into who I am
[00:29:48] and how I speak now
[00:29:50] and what I am so passionate about
[00:29:53] and that all comes from the experiences
[00:29:55] yeah
[00:29:57] so what's hitting me is
[00:29:59] with this early stuff
[00:30:03] that went on
[00:30:04] the early life events
[00:30:05] and the DV
[00:30:07] it took
[00:30:09] a long time
[00:30:10] to ask
[00:30:10] for
[00:30:11] go outside
[00:30:12] for help
[00:30:13] because
[00:30:13] there's a
[00:30:14] because trust is gone
[00:30:16] presumably
[00:30:17] that must
[00:30:18] that must have been a big factor
[00:30:19] like
[00:30:20] trust was a massive factor
[00:30:21] but I think
[00:30:22] so
[00:30:24] I am one of the youngest
[00:30:26] of
[00:30:26] I'm a massive fan
[00:30:28] where
[00:30:28] a lot of older
[00:30:29] older generations
[00:30:31] um
[00:30:33] and it was
[00:30:34] then times of
[00:30:35] what happens
[00:30:36] in the family
[00:30:37] stays in the family
[00:30:38] and we don't talk about things
[00:30:40] and that was happening
[00:30:41] when the DV was happening
[00:30:42] in my younger years
[00:30:44] and I think
[00:30:45] that took that
[00:30:45] that's how I was learnt
[00:30:47] you don't talk about it
[00:30:49] and that went into my adult years as well
[00:30:52] and it weren't until
[00:30:53] I started getting the support
[00:30:54] that I found
[00:30:55] I started working out
[00:30:56] do you know what
[00:30:56] you are okay to talk
[00:30:59] it's fine
[00:31:00] to be open about it
[00:31:01] let's talk about these things
[00:31:04] you know
[00:31:04] let's not
[00:31:05] there's no point
[00:31:06] pretending that
[00:31:07] they didn't happen
[00:31:08] because it all just
[00:31:09] comes out again
[00:31:10] and that's what was happening
[00:31:11] trauma was coming out
[00:31:12] and out again
[00:31:13] and because
[00:31:14] I didn't take that
[00:31:15] nobody took that time
[00:31:16] to discuss things with me
[00:31:17] or talk things through
[00:31:19] with me
[00:31:19] and let me have that
[00:31:20] understanding
[00:31:21] or talk about my own
[00:31:22] thoughts and feelings
[00:31:23] about it
[00:31:24] so it was all
[00:31:25] pushed down
[00:31:26] for many many years
[00:31:27] and it all
[00:31:28] it came out in bits
[00:31:30] little bits
[00:31:31] but I couldn't
[00:31:32] understand it
[00:31:35] so healing
[00:31:38] healing is about
[00:31:39] accepting rather than
[00:31:40] fighting
[00:31:42] yeah
[00:31:42] I think
[00:31:43] well not
[00:31:44] well yeah of course
[00:31:45] yeah
[00:31:45] I think
[00:31:46] to heal
[00:31:47] you have to accept
[00:31:48] and that's took me
[00:31:49] 20 plus years
[00:31:51] to get my head
[00:31:52] around that
[00:31:52] that's not an easy
[00:31:53] thing
[00:31:54] it doesn't just
[00:31:54] come to you
[00:31:55] I think
[00:31:57] time is a healer
[00:31:59] massive healer
[00:32:01] it's a place
[00:32:02] where we can
[00:32:03] reflect
[00:32:03] as well
[00:32:04] and it takes
[00:32:05] years of
[00:32:05] reflecting
[00:32:06] when learning
[00:32:08] and being able
[00:32:08] to see things
[00:32:09] from different
[00:32:10] points
[00:32:10] so 10-15 years
[00:32:12] ago
[00:32:14] everything would
[00:32:15] have been
[00:32:15] everybody else's
[00:32:16] fault
[00:32:16] and I didn't
[00:32:18] want to talk
[00:32:19] about it
[00:32:19] and if you
[00:32:20] brought it up
[00:32:22] like it was
[00:32:23] a no-go
[00:32:24] like it was
[00:32:24] just a no-go
[00:32:25] area
[00:32:25] it wasn't
[00:32:26] happening
[00:32:27] there was
[00:32:28] times where
[00:32:29] depression
[00:32:29] kicked in
[00:32:30] and I
[00:32:31] would turn
[00:32:32] to drink
[00:32:33] I wasn't an
[00:32:34] alcoholic
[00:32:34] I was a
[00:32:35] binge drinker
[00:32:35] it was easy
[00:32:36] to pick up
[00:32:37] that drink
[00:32:37] and numb
[00:32:37] myself
[00:32:38] on a bad
[00:32:39] day
[00:32:40] that hasn't
[00:32:41] happened
[00:32:41] for years
[00:32:42] now
[00:32:43] since I
[00:32:43] started
[00:32:43] getting
[00:32:44] the
[00:32:44] support
[00:32:44] and
[00:32:44] that
[00:32:46] yeah
[00:32:47] so
[00:32:49] I think
[00:32:50] healing
[00:32:51] comes with
[00:32:51] acceptance
[00:32:53] understanding
[00:32:54] and validation
[00:32:55] and how do
[00:33:00] you see
[00:33:01] the mix
[00:33:02] of internal
[00:33:02] and external
[00:33:03] with that
[00:33:05] what do you
[00:33:06] mean
[00:33:06] well
[00:33:10] I'm just
[00:33:11] asking you
[00:33:12] a question
[00:33:12] to
[00:33:14] so you
[00:33:15] keep on
[00:33:15] the direction
[00:33:17] that you're
[00:33:17] going
[00:33:18] so
[00:33:18] I'm just
[00:33:19] making
[00:33:20] a distinction
[00:33:20] internal
[00:33:21] and external
[00:33:22] right
[00:33:22] so validation
[00:33:23] is an
[00:33:23] external thing
[00:33:24] you could
[00:33:25] say
[00:33:25] right
[00:33:25] understanding
[00:33:26] is an
[00:33:27] internal
[00:33:27] thing
[00:33:29] maybe
[00:33:29] you know
[00:33:30] just to
[00:33:30] simplify
[00:33:31] so I'm
[00:33:32] just
[00:33:33] asking you
[00:33:34] the
[00:33:34] question
[00:33:35] about
[00:33:36] what's
[00:33:37] the mix
[00:33:37] for you
[00:33:38] in healing
[00:33:39] in terms
[00:33:39] of
[00:33:40] internal
[00:33:40] and external
[00:33:43] validation
[00:33:44] came with me
[00:33:45] when somebody
[00:33:45] first listened
[00:33:46] to my whole
[00:33:47] story
[00:33:47] so
[00:33:50] everything
[00:33:51] that I
[00:33:51] had been
[00:33:52] through
[00:33:52] everything
[00:33:53] that I
[00:33:53] questioned
[00:33:54] in my
[00:33:54] head
[00:33:55] everything
[00:33:56] that
[00:33:56] so for
[00:33:58] 20 years
[00:33:58] in that
[00:33:59] time
[00:33:59] when I
[00:33:59] went
[00:33:59] through
[00:34:00] the
[00:34:00] courts
[00:34:00] I
[00:34:00] was
[00:34:00] sent
[00:34:01] for
[00:34:01] a
[00:34:01] psychological
[00:34:01] report
[00:34:03] and it
[00:34:03] said
[00:34:04] that I
[00:34:04] had
[00:34:05] a
[00:34:05] borderline
[00:34:06] personality
[00:34:07] disorder
[00:34:08] so I
[00:34:09] spent 20
[00:34:09] years
[00:34:10] thinking
[00:34:10] that I
[00:34:10] had
[00:34:11] that
[00:34:11] and it
[00:34:11] wasn't
[00:34:12] until I
[00:34:12] had the
[00:34:12] breakdown
[00:34:13] and I
[00:34:14] went to the
[00:34:14] hospital
[00:34:15] myself
[00:34:15] and they
[00:34:15] told me
[00:34:17] Christy
[00:34:17] nobody can
[00:34:18] diagnose
[00:34:19] you
[00:34:20] with that
[00:34:21] within an
[00:34:21] hour's
[00:34:22] session
[00:34:23] for 20
[00:34:24] years I
[00:34:24] thought
[00:34:24] that I
[00:34:24] had left
[00:34:25] me on
[00:34:25] my own
[00:34:26] them
[00:34:26] courts
[00:34:26] they
[00:34:26] said
[00:34:27] that I
[00:34:27] had
[00:34:27] this
[00:34:28] disorder
[00:34:29] or whatever
[00:34:29] it
[00:34:30] was
[00:34:31] and then
[00:34:32] I was
[00:34:32] validated
[00:34:33] in fact
[00:34:34] there was
[00:34:34] nothing wrong
[00:34:34] with me
[00:34:35] in that
[00:34:35] sense
[00:34:35] I just
[00:34:36] had a
[00:34:36] hard
[00:34:36] traumatic
[00:34:37] life
[00:34:38] I was
[00:34:38] validated
[00:34:40] so that
[00:34:41] myth
[00:34:41] that had
[00:34:42] been in
[00:34:42] my head
[00:34:43] for 20
[00:34:43] years
[00:34:43] that there
[00:34:43] was something
[00:34:44] underlining
[00:34:44] with me
[00:34:45] wasn't true
[00:34:48] so I
[00:34:48] suppose I
[00:34:49] was validated
[00:34:49] in that
[00:34:50] sense as
[00:34:51] well
[00:34:51] my story
[00:34:52] being
[00:34:52] validated
[00:34:54] and having
[00:34:55] that feeling
[00:34:56] of being
[00:34:56] able to
[00:34:58] it's okay
[00:35:00] just knowing
[00:35:01] that it
[00:35:01] was real
[00:35:02] what you
[00:35:02] went through
[00:35:04] and that
[00:35:05] you are
[00:35:05] okay to
[00:35:05] move forward
[00:35:06] it's okay
[00:35:08] I just
[00:35:09] got so
[00:35:10] much from
[00:35:10] that and
[00:35:11] that's my
[00:35:11] healing and
[00:35:13] I think
[00:35:14] I'll be on a
[00:35:14] healing journey
[00:35:15] for most
[00:35:16] probably the
[00:35:17] rest of
[00:35:17] my life
[00:35:19] it's not
[00:35:19] something that
[00:35:20] you'll ever
[00:35:21] move on
[00:35:22] from
[00:35:22] it's how
[00:35:23] we navigate
[00:35:24] them feelings
[00:35:25] and these
[00:35:26] emotions
[00:35:26] as we
[00:35:27] move through
[00:35:27] life
[00:35:28] and the
[00:35:29] journey's
[00:35:29] not over
[00:35:31] you know
[00:35:31] what I
[00:35:32] mean
[00:35:32] I'm not
[00:35:32] in reunion
[00:35:33] will a
[00:35:34] reunion
[00:35:34] ever happen
[00:35:34] I don't
[00:35:35] know
[00:35:35] I can't
[00:35:37] answer
[00:35:37] them
[00:35:37] things
[00:35:40] but yeah
[00:35:40] my journey
[00:35:41] is a
[00:35:42] healing
[00:35:42] and it
[00:35:43] comes from
[00:35:43] both
[00:35:44] external
[00:35:44] and internal
[00:35:45] sides
[00:35:46] I think
[00:35:46] so what
[00:35:50] what do
[00:35:50] you think
[00:35:50] gets in
[00:35:51] our way
[00:35:51] of us
[00:35:52] healing
[00:35:53] or thriving
[00:35:54] or both
[00:35:55] the trauma
[00:35:56] the trauma
[00:35:59] is bigger
[00:36:00] than any
[00:36:00] of it
[00:36:01] and it
[00:36:02] takes so
[00:36:02] long to
[00:36:03] unravel it
[00:36:05] and get
[00:36:07] through
[00:36:07] them
[00:36:07] triggers
[00:36:11] yeah
[00:36:13] for me
[00:36:14] it was
[00:36:14] the trauma
[00:36:19] I wish
[00:36:20] I could
[00:36:20] come up
[00:36:21] with a
[00:36:21] better
[00:36:21] question
[00:36:21] from that
[00:36:23] sorry
[00:36:26] it all
[00:36:28] sounds really
[00:36:28] dark
[00:36:29] but it
[00:36:29] is just
[00:36:30] my truth
[00:36:31] and
[00:36:33] without
[00:36:34] them
[00:36:34] experiences
[00:36:36] I wouldn't
[00:36:37] be who I
[00:36:37] am now
[00:36:37] I am a
[00:36:38] stronger person
[00:36:39] for it
[00:36:40] don't get
[00:36:40] me wrong
[00:36:41] okay
[00:36:42] let me
[00:36:43] give you
[00:36:43] an example
[00:36:44] of what
[00:36:44] I mean
[00:36:47] let me
[00:36:48] give you
[00:36:48] an example
[00:36:49] of what
[00:36:50] I mean
[00:36:50] what could
[00:36:52] get in
[00:36:52] the way
[00:36:53] of us
[00:36:53] healing
[00:36:55] is the
[00:36:56] belief
[00:36:57] that we
[00:36:57] can't
[00:37:00] yeah
[00:37:01] yeah
[00:37:01] so that
[00:37:02] when I
[00:37:03] ask the
[00:37:03] question
[00:37:04] what gets
[00:37:05] in a way
[00:37:06] of us
[00:37:06] thriving
[00:37:08] or healing
[00:37:09] or both
[00:37:10] what I'm
[00:37:11] looking at
[00:37:12] is
[00:37:15] beyond the
[00:37:16] trauma
[00:37:17] itself
[00:37:17] I'm
[00:37:17] looking at
[00:37:18] something
[00:37:18] that's
[00:37:18] beyond the
[00:37:19] trauma
[00:37:19] itself
[00:37:20] so
[00:37:20] for example
[00:37:21] the belief
[00:37:22] that we
[00:37:22] can't
[00:37:22] heal
[00:37:24] that's
[00:37:24] going to
[00:37:25] get in
[00:37:26] the way
[00:37:29] yeah
[00:37:30] that's
[00:37:30] a hard
[00:37:30] one for
[00:37:30] me to
[00:37:31] answer
[00:37:32] yeah
[00:37:32] I know
[00:37:33] it's a
[00:37:33] really tough
[00:37:34] question
[00:37:35] really tough
[00:37:36] question
[00:37:36] because
[00:37:37] for me
[00:37:38] I suppose
[00:37:39] I've just
[00:37:40] got
[00:37:41] started getting
[00:37:42] used to the
[00:37:42] fact of
[00:37:43] this is my
[00:37:44] journey
[00:37:45] and it's
[00:37:45] going to be
[00:37:46] a long
[00:37:46] journey
[00:37:46] and it's
[00:37:47] going to
[00:37:47] have its
[00:37:47] ups
[00:37:48] and it's
[00:37:48] going to
[00:37:48] have its
[00:37:49] downs
[00:37:49] but I
[00:37:50] am going
[00:37:50] to do
[00:37:51] my best
[00:37:52] to make
[00:37:53] sure that
[00:37:53] I am
[00:37:54] okay in
[00:37:54] all this
[00:37:56] to get
[00:37:57] positive out
[00:37:58] of it
[00:37:58] and to
[00:37:59] have that
[00:37:59] positive
[00:38:00] mind of
[00:38:00] not letting
[00:38:02] the negativity
[00:38:02] come in
[00:38:05] in order for
[00:38:06] me to
[00:38:06] thrive
[00:38:06] I went
[00:38:15] to
[00:38:15] South
[00:38:16] Carolina
[00:38:17] last
[00:38:17] year
[00:38:19] working
[00:38:24] through a
[00:38:25] guy that
[00:38:25] I met
[00:38:26] through the
[00:38:26] podcast
[00:38:27] who's an
[00:38:29] adoptee
[00:38:29] and runs
[00:38:30] a children's
[00:38:30] family
[00:38:32] and I
[00:38:34] had a
[00:38:34] fantastic
[00:38:35] time
[00:38:35] the people
[00:38:37] were
[00:38:38] brilliant
[00:38:41] the warmth
[00:38:43] of their
[00:38:43] hospitality
[00:38:44] everywhere
[00:38:44] well apart
[00:38:46] from their
[00:38:46] airport
[00:38:46] the airport
[00:38:47] was just
[00:38:47] like any
[00:38:48] other
[00:38:48] airport
[00:38:48] but you
[00:38:49] know the
[00:38:50] people that
[00:38:50] I met
[00:38:51] in the
[00:38:52] town
[00:38:52] that were
[00:38:52] people in
[00:38:53] the hotel
[00:38:54] everybody
[00:38:55] right
[00:38:56] and I
[00:38:57] did some
[00:38:58] work in
[00:38:58] the children's
[00:38:59] home that
[00:38:59] the guy
[00:39:00] runs
[00:39:02] and did
[00:39:05] loads of
[00:39:05] work in
[00:39:06] the elementary
[00:39:07] schools
[00:39:08] what they
[00:39:09] call elementary
[00:39:09] schools
[00:39:10] what we
[00:39:10] call primary
[00:39:11] schools
[00:39:11] and the
[00:39:12] whole week
[00:39:14] was brilliant
[00:39:15] they
[00:39:16] couldn't
[00:39:16] have done
[00:39:16] more for
[00:39:17] me
[00:39:17] everything
[00:39:18] brilliant
[00:39:19] people
[00:39:19] there was
[00:39:21] two things
[00:39:24] that I
[00:39:24] mentioned
[00:39:25] to my
[00:39:27] friend
[00:39:27] Danny
[00:39:30] that
[00:39:32] one
[00:39:35] a lot
[00:39:36] of the
[00:39:36] kids
[00:39:36] in the
[00:39:37] children's
[00:39:38] home
[00:39:38] were
[00:39:41] had
[00:39:42] come out
[00:39:45] of homes
[00:39:45] where
[00:39:45] adoption
[00:39:46] hadn't
[00:39:46] worked
[00:39:47] and Danny
[00:39:48] is an
[00:39:49] adoptee
[00:39:50] and
[00:39:51] I said
[00:39:52] look
[00:39:53] I really
[00:39:53] think
[00:39:54] you
[00:39:54] could
[00:39:54] use
[00:39:55] you
[00:39:56] could
[00:39:57] build
[00:39:58] more
[00:39:58] empathy
[00:39:59] you could
[00:39:59] inspire
[00:40:00] he's an
[00:40:01] inspirational
[00:40:02] guy
[00:40:03] you
[00:40:03] can
[00:40:03] put
[00:40:04] the
[00:40:04] icing
[00:40:04] on
[00:40:05] the
[00:40:05] cake
[00:40:05] if
[00:40:05] you
[00:40:06] use
[00:40:06] more
[00:40:06] of
[00:40:06] your
[00:40:06] story
[00:40:08] and
[00:40:10] I
[00:40:10] also
[00:40:12] that
[00:40:13] was
[00:40:13] a
[00:40:14] thing
[00:40:14] that
[00:40:14] I
[00:40:32] referred
[00:40:32] to
[00:40:33] the
[00:40:33] kids
[00:40:34] as
[00:40:34] broken
[00:40:45] would
[00:40:46] you
[00:40:47] take
[00:40:47] I
[00:40:48] came up
[00:40:49] with this
[00:40:49] word
[00:40:50] umbrage
[00:40:50] I don't
[00:40:52] even
[00:40:53] know
[00:40:54] what
[00:40:54] the
[00:40:54] word
[00:40:54] means
[00:40:54] would
[00:40:55] you
[00:40:57] see a
[00:40:58] challenge
[00:40:59] there
[00:40:59] with
[00:41:00] talking
[00:41:01] about
[00:41:02] kids
[00:41:02] as
[00:41:02] broken
[00:41:03] that's
[00:41:09] another
[00:41:09] difficult
[00:41:09] one
[00:41:10] because
[00:41:10] I
[00:41:11] think
[00:41:11] so
[00:41:11] many
[00:41:11] children
[00:41:12] have
[00:41:12] gone
[00:41:12] through
[00:41:12] so
[00:41:13] much
[00:41:13] trauma
[00:41:15] are
[00:41:15] they
[00:41:16] broken
[00:41:19] or
[00:41:20] do
[00:41:20] they
[00:41:20] just
[00:41:20] need
[00:41:20] a
[00:41:21] little
[00:41:21] bit
[00:41:21] of
[00:41:21] an
[00:41:21] understanding
[00:41:23] I
[00:41:24] would
[00:41:24] be
[00:41:24] in
[00:41:25] the
[00:41:25] latter
[00:41:25] camp
[00:41:25] myself
[00:41:26] I
[00:41:27] think
[00:41:27] you
[00:41:27] are
[00:41:27] are
[00:41:27] you
[00:41:27] yeah
[00:41:28] I
[00:41:28] think
[00:41:29] so
[00:41:29] yeah
[00:41:29] yeah
[00:41:30] yeah
[00:41:31] yeah
[00:41:32] would
[00:41:32] you
[00:41:33] consider
[00:41:33] yourself
[00:41:35] broken
[00:41:35] I
[00:41:38] have
[00:41:38] been
[00:41:38] broken
[00:41:39] on
[00:41:40] more
[00:41:40] than
[00:41:40] one
[00:41:40] occasion
[00:41:41] definitely
[00:41:44] um
[00:41:46] but
[00:41:46] I'd
[00:41:46] like
[00:41:46] to
[00:41:47] say
[00:41:47] that
[00:41:47] I'm
[00:41:47] very
[00:41:48] good
[00:41:48] at
[00:41:48] well
[00:41:48] I
[00:41:49] wouldn't
[00:41:49] say
[00:41:49] very
[00:41:49] good
[00:41:49] but
[00:41:50] I am
[00:41:50] capable
[00:41:51] of
[00:41:51] rebuilding
[00:41:52] shall
[00:41:52] we
[00:41:52] say
[00:41:55] I've
[00:41:55] been
[00:41:55] broken
[00:41:56] rebuild
[00:41:56] again
[00:41:57] and
[00:41:58] rebuild
[00:41:58] do
[00:41:59] you
[00:42:00] consider
[00:42:00] yourself
[00:42:00] broken
[00:42:01] now
[00:42:02] no
[00:42:03] no
[00:42:03] no
[00:42:03] don't
[00:42:04] no
[00:42:04] no
[00:42:04] I
[00:42:05] consider
[00:42:05] myself
[00:42:06] as
[00:42:07] moving
[00:42:07] on
[00:42:07] from
[00:42:08] that
[00:42:08] part
[00:42:09] and
[00:42:10] healing
[00:42:11] yeah
[00:42:13] so
[00:42:14] I'm
[00:42:14] not
[00:42:14] broken
[00:42:15] but
[00:42:15] I
[00:42:15] am
[00:42:16] healing
[00:42:16] yeah
[00:42:19] slowly
[00:42:19] does
[00:42:20] that
[00:42:20] make
[00:42:20] sense
[00:42:20] yeah
[00:42:21] it
[00:42:21] does
[00:42:22] yeah
[00:42:22] yeah
[00:42:23] yeah
[00:42:24] yeah
[00:42:25] I support
[00:42:25] it is
[00:42:26] it's
[00:42:26] the
[00:42:26] journey
[00:42:26] it's
[00:42:27] the
[00:42:27] journey
[00:42:27] you know
[00:42:30] we will
[00:42:31] go through
[00:42:32] dark
[00:42:32] dark
[00:42:33] times
[00:42:34] anybody
[00:42:35] that's
[00:42:35] been
[00:42:35] through
[00:42:36] anything
[00:42:36] traumatic
[00:42:36] and it
[00:42:38] always
[00:42:38] seems to
[00:42:39] find a
[00:42:39] way to
[00:42:39] suit
[00:42:40] surface
[00:42:40] and that
[00:42:40] but if
[00:42:41] you can
[00:42:41] find that
[00:42:42] way
[00:42:42] to
[00:42:42] navigate
[00:42:43] it
[00:42:44] and
[00:42:44] deal
[00:42:45] with
[00:42:45] it
[00:42:45] better
[00:42:45] and
[00:42:46] have
[00:42:46] these
[00:42:48] I
[00:42:48] don't
[00:42:49] know
[00:42:49] I
[00:42:49] call
[00:42:49] it
[00:42:49] self
[00:42:50] caring
[00:42:50] place
[00:42:50] what's
[00:42:51] right
[00:42:51] for
[00:42:51] you
[00:42:53] how
[00:42:53] you
[00:42:53] want
[00:42:54] to
[00:42:54] deal
[00:42:54] with
[00:42:54] things
[00:42:56] how
[00:42:57] we
[00:42:57] deal
[00:42:57] with
[00:42:57] things
[00:42:58] I
[00:42:58] suppose
[00:42:59] it
[00:42:59] has
[00:42:59] to
[00:42:59] be
[00:42:59] right
[00:43:00] for
[00:43:00] you
[00:43:02] I
[00:43:02] think
[00:43:02] that
[00:43:03] journey
[00:43:03] starts
[00:43:04] with
[00:43:04] your
[00:43:04] inner
[00:43:05] self
[00:43:05] and
[00:43:06] not
[00:43:06] from
[00:43:07] everybody
[00:43:07] on the
[00:43:08] outside
[00:43:10] so
[00:43:11] yeah
[00:43:12] just
[00:43:12] rebuilding
[00:43:12] yourself
[00:43:13] to who
[00:43:13] you
[00:43:13] want
[00:43:14] to
[00:43:14] be
[00:43:14] I
[00:43:15] think
[00:43:15] I
[00:43:15] spent
[00:43:15] many
[00:43:16] years
[00:43:16] listening
[00:43:16] to
[00:43:17] people
[00:43:17] saying
[00:43:17] you
[00:43:17] should
[00:43:18] be
[00:43:18] doing
[00:43:18] this
[00:43:18] and
[00:43:19] don't
[00:43:19] worry
[00:43:20] about
[00:43:20] it
[00:43:21] you
[00:43:21] went
[00:43:21] through
[00:43:22] that
[00:43:22] yeah
[00:43:22] but
[00:43:22] it's
[00:43:22] over
[00:43:23] now
[00:43:23] it's
[00:43:23] in
[00:43:23] the
[00:43:23] past
[00:43:24] and
[00:43:24] blah
[00:43:24] blah
[00:43:24] blah
[00:43:25] and
[00:43:26] thought
[00:43:26] no
[00:43:26] I
[00:43:26] need
[00:43:27] to
[00:43:27] be
[00:43:28] acknowledged
[00:43:31] to
[00:43:32] be able
[00:43:32] to
[00:43:32] move
[00:43:33] forward
[00:43:33] with
[00:43:33] my
[00:43:50] I
[00:43:50] hope
[00:43:50] I
[00:43:51] hope
[00:43:51] I'm
[00:43:51] making
[00:43:51] sense
[00:43:52] is
[00:43:58] there
[00:44:00] something
[00:44:00] that you'd
[00:44:01] like to
[00:44:01] share
[00:44:01] that I've
[00:44:02] not
[00:44:02] asked
[00:44:02] you
[00:44:02] about
[00:44:04] oh
[00:44:05] I
[00:44:05] don't
[00:44:05] know
[00:44:07] I
[00:44:08] think
[00:44:08] for
[00:44:09] birth
[00:44:09] parents
[00:44:10] and
[00:44:10] that
[00:44:11] for
[00:44:12] the
[00:44:12] whole
[00:44:12] size
[00:44:12] of
[00:44:13] adoption
[00:44:13] when
[00:44:13] we're
[00:44:14] thinking
[00:44:14] about
[00:44:14] birth
[00:44:14] parents
[00:44:15] and
[00:44:15] that
[00:44:17] language
[00:44:17] that
[00:44:17] we
[00:44:18] use
[00:44:20] so
[00:44:21] when I
[00:44:22] say
[00:44:22] language
[00:44:24] a lot
[00:44:24] of
[00:44:24] things
[00:44:25] have
[00:44:25] come
[00:44:25] up
[00:44:25] in
[00:44:25] the
[00:44:25] last
[00:44:25] three
[00:44:26] years
[00:44:26] where
[00:44:26] I
[00:44:27] can
[00:44:27] reflect
[00:44:27] back
[00:44:28] to
[00:44:28] the
[00:44:28] old
[00:44:28] days
[00:44:29] where
[00:44:29] language
[00:44:29] was
[00:44:30] used
[00:44:30] in
[00:44:30] reports
[00:44:30] and
[00:44:31] that
[00:44:31] and
[00:44:32] how
[00:44:32] things
[00:44:32] can
[00:44:32] be
[00:44:33] taken
[00:44:33] out
[00:44:33] of
[00:44:48] this
[00:44:48] this
[00:44:49] all
[00:44:49] going
[00:44:49] to
[00:44:49] resurface
[00:44:50] and
[00:44:51] people
[00:44:51] are
[00:44:51] going
[00:44:51] to
[00:44:51] read
[00:44:51] them
[00:44:52] reports
[00:44:52] and
[00:44:52] that
[00:44:53] and
[00:44:54] just
[00:44:54] think
[00:44:54] about
[00:44:54] how
[00:44:55] you're
[00:44:55] wording
[00:44:55] things
[00:44:57] and
[00:44:57] the
[00:44:58] other
[00:44:58] part
[00:44:58] is
[00:44:59] let's
[00:44:59] think
[00:45:00] about
[00:45:00] support
[00:45:01] for
[00:45:01] these
[00:45:01] parents
[00:45:02] that
[00:45:03] are
[00:45:04] just
[00:45:04] stuck
[00:45:04] in
[00:45:04] a
[00:45:04] bad
[00:45:04] situation
[00:45:06] stop
[00:45:07] leaving
[00:45:07] them
[00:45:07] in
[00:45:07] trauma
[00:45:08] we
[00:45:08] talk
[00:45:08] about
[00:45:09] mental
[00:45:09] health
[00:45:09] it's
[00:45:09] an
[00:45:10] open
[00:45:10] conversation
[00:45:11] these
[00:45:11] days
[00:45:11] towards
[00:45:12] what
[00:45:12] it
[00:45:12] was
[00:45:12] 20
[00:45:13] years
[00:45:13] ago
[00:45:15] we
[00:45:16] talk
[00:45:16] about
[00:45:18] my
[00:45:19] matter
[00:45:19] is
[00:45:19] a
[00:45:19] healthy
[00:45:20] mind
[00:45:21] just
[00:45:23] contemplate
[00:45:23] that
[00:45:24] when we
[00:45:24] think
[00:45:24] about
[00:45:24] removing
[00:45:25] these
[00:45:25] children
[00:45:25] from
[00:45:26] people
[00:45:27] in
[00:45:27] a
[00:45:27] very
[00:45:28] difficult
[00:45:29] situation
[00:45:31] and
[00:45:31] let's
[00:45:32] make it
[00:45:32] better
[00:45:32] for the
[00:45:32] child
[00:45:33] as well
[00:45:33] let's
[00:45:34] make it
[00:45:35] about
[00:45:35] the
[00:45:35] child
[00:45:35] identity
[00:45:36] having
[00:45:37] them
[00:45:37] doors
[00:45:37] open
[00:45:38] for
[00:45:38] any
[00:45:38] questions
[00:45:39] to be
[00:45:40] asked
[00:45:41] medical
[00:45:41] history
[00:45:41] there's
[00:45:43] things
[00:45:43] that have
[00:45:43] come up
[00:45:44] in the
[00:45:44] last
[00:45:44] 20
[00:45:44] years
[00:45:45] that
[00:45:45] it
[00:45:45] wasn't
[00:45:46] until
[00:45:46] recently
[00:45:46] I
[00:45:46] didn't
[00:45:47] actually
[00:45:47] know
[00:45:47] that
[00:45:47] I
[00:45:47] could
[00:45:48] put
[00:45:48] things
[00:45:48] on
[00:45:48] file
[00:45:49] nobody
[00:45:50] told
[00:45:50] me
[00:45:50] I
[00:45:50] could
[00:45:51] put
[00:45:51] things
[00:45:51] on
[00:45:51] file
[00:45:53] for
[00:45:53] my
[00:45:53] children
[00:45:54] to
[00:45:54] read
[00:45:54] when
[00:45:54] the
[00:45:55] time
[00:45:55] was
[00:45:55] right
[00:45:55] never
[00:45:56] knew
[00:45:56] that
[00:45:56] Simon
[00:45:57] there
[00:45:58] were
[00:45:58] things
[00:45:58] that
[00:45:58] could
[00:45:58] have
[00:45:58] been
[00:45:59] told
[00:46:01] I
[00:46:01] was
[00:46:02] never
[00:46:02] told
[00:46:03] I
[00:47:03] yeah brilliant thanks christie thanks listeners we'll speak to you very soon take care bye