Language To Heal With Jude Hung

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Thriving Adoptees podcast today.

[00:00:06] I'm delighted to be joined by Jude Hung, looking forward to this conversation.

[00:00:10] Yeah, I am too, especially since I didn't know we were having it.

[00:00:16] Indeed, it's an impromptu one. It's an impromptu one, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:00:20] So, those are the best.

[00:00:22] Yeah, my wife just came back from the Lake District, which is kind of a mountain and lake district part of the UK.

[00:00:32] So, it's got the highest mountain in England, in Scarfell Pike.

[00:00:37] So, it's a kind of a walky place and there's lots of very high mountains for England.

[00:00:47] What's the elevation? Do you know?

[00:00:50] 3,000 metres? Sorry, no, no, no, 3,000 feet.

[00:00:54] 3,000 feet, something like that. So not super high in American terms, but in English terms.

[00:01:01] I was only curious because I live in Asheville, which is up in the mountains and we're about 26.

[00:01:07] It's not super high. I wish we were at 3,000, we're 2,600 feet. Yeah.

[00:01:12] So, part of this landscape has been created by this ancient breed of sheep.

[00:01:24] Called the herdwhip sheep. So, Beatrix Potter, the kids illustrator.

[00:01:32] And so she wrote her books in the Lake District and obviously made a lot of money or made enough money to buy a load of farms.

[00:01:47] And so she bought these farms and she bequeathed them, she left them in a will too.

[00:01:53] So, to the National Trust I think, and they have to, these sheep, these farms have to

[00:02:04] raise at least 100 of these herdwhip sheep.

[00:02:08] And my wife got a Christmas present, which was a sheep experience.

[00:02:15] And so we were talking about, Jude and I were talking about how we, about energy levels and

[00:02:25] frequencies and the fact that we kind of like, we love our animals because we kind of synchronise

[00:02:34] with the animals around it. Yes. So, whenever we are with other people or other animals, our nervous

[00:02:43] systems are syncing up and influencing each other. And so for these animals like the sheep

[00:02:50] that have been trained, right, their emotional support sheep, they've been trained to be calm.

[00:02:57] And so they have a calming influence on us, just like when we walk in nature,

[00:03:04] you know, everything is energetic and it is influencing us. And we also influence others.

[00:03:10] So that's why attunement when we were children was really important. And for many of us, we didn't

[00:03:18] have that. And so we have these dysregulated nervous systems, right? So we're learning to

[00:03:23] attune to ourselves now and to regulate ourselves now. So yeah, it's really interesting stuff.

[00:03:31] So I don't know whether they're trained as a sheep or they've just been around humans,

[00:03:35] they're not scared. They're not most sheep scared of humans because we are predators, I guess.

[00:03:43] And yeah, this time in nature is expansive. It's healing. So, you know, Wordsworth was,

[00:03:58] the Lake District was a big inspiration for him, right? So that the poem that is,

[00:04:02] I wondered lonely as a cloud, you know, that's kind of from the Lake District.

[00:04:07] So this land has, you know, experiences in nature have that restorative effect. And it's been like

[00:04:18] that. You just get the grandeur of the mountains and we are less significant. And so Linda did

[00:04:31] this sheep experience. And she loved it. And I was sharing with Jude how

[00:04:40] this book, there's a book called Power versus Force by David Hawkins. I'll put a link in the show notes.

[00:04:48] And this guy, I mentioned it on the podcast before, this guy created a scale of human

[00:04:54] consciousness from 0 to 1000. And at naught is dead. Shame is 20, which is very significant for the

[00:05:08] experience, this shame, this feeling of not being good enough.

[00:05:14] Right, because we carried that.

[00:05:18] In some way. And he also calibrated the wag of a dog's tail. And that's how we got into this subject

[00:05:29] about sheep and energy. Words, energy, emotions. Yeah. And we're doing a webinar in a couple of weeks

[00:05:43] on language. So this is kind of an exploration of what we're going to be doing on it so people can

[00:05:49] check out that sort of stuff. So yes, we were talking about why language is so

[00:05:56] important and impactful. And it started with that emotions scale. There's also you can

[00:06:04] Google this and look up the megahertz the frequency of emotions. There's a chart.

[00:06:10] And like Simon said, Simon says, shame is low. Shame is low on the megahertz scale.

[00:06:22] And so is anger, fear, right? Love is kind of a middle midway bridge emotion that seems to connect

[00:06:31] us to the higher frequency emotions like joy, bliss, gratitude and the highest they call

[00:06:39] enlightenment. And so the thing is, is that words right? So what are words and emotions have?

[00:06:47] You know, what's the connection is that our thoughts and our feelings or what create our state of being

[00:06:55] but our words are how we express those things, right? Or we put words to our thoughts,

[00:07:02] we put words to our feelings. I'm going to share one that just this week has kind of come into

[00:07:07] focus for me and is a hot topic or even a triggery hot button in adoption land is gratitude.

[00:07:17] You know, we kind of grapple with it. And there was a beautiful article that I read on gratitude

[00:07:25] and it was written by an adoptee is very potent. We'll put that in the notes for this

[00:07:33] podcast as well. So you guys can go read it. And as I was reading it and remembering she had a mantra

[00:07:41] stay small, stay still, stay silent, I could really relate to that in my childhood.

[00:07:49] And as I continue to read it, I read it a few times and I thought, this isn't gratitude though.

[00:07:56] Right. This is servitude. This when gratitude is an obligation or forced upon us, that is not true

[00:08:07] gratitude. And what we are feeling in our bodies because it's not gratitude.

[00:08:14] It's not the same frequency gratitude has a frequency. It has a signature thumbprint.

[00:08:19] And it's not that which we are calling gratitude in adoption land. That is obligation. That is

[00:08:27] something forced. And so we need another word for it because it's not gratitude. True gratitude is

[00:08:34] the spontaneous appreciation that comes forth and it's a very high frequency feeling and it feels

[00:08:40] good. So what we're talking about isn't gratitude. And so I thought how what an important

[00:08:46] like moment for me, this aha, this differentiation between what we're talking about

[00:08:53] and calling gratitude and no wonder we're so upset about it because it's not gratitude at all.

[00:09:00] And it doesn't feel good when something is forced upon us and it isn't truly gratitude.

[00:09:11] You know, I hope I'm making sense. I hope you're following along with me.

[00:09:15] So, you know, and so for me, I'm a reiki master and so energy has become and been a really important

[00:09:23] guide because you can't fake that right? Like true gratitude is like between like 500 and 700 mega

[00:09:32] hertz. It's pretty high up there. And you know, what we're feeling is something really low

[00:09:40] when we're talking about, you know, oh, I have to be thankful, you know, or this narrative of

[00:09:48] you must be, you know, oh, you're you must be so grateful that you were adopted.

[00:09:54] And yet we have all this grief that's it. So it's incongru and it's out of alignment with

[00:10:00] what we're feeling in our body. Right. And so this is where words get really important

[00:10:04] and where we can align with the truth that is inside of us and then begin to alchemize it

[00:10:12] and transmute it and transform it. Right. And and then when we are grateful, truly grateful

[00:10:20] and appreciative of something in our lives, we can recognize that higher frequency feeling

[00:10:27] and lean into it. Right. And go, that's gratitude. That actually feels good and began to amplify

[00:10:34] higher states of being, you know, a question that I ask in my workshops to people is what's your

[00:10:40] baseline? Like look at this emotional chart and what's your baseline support for us to know our

[00:10:45] own energetic well being like where we had, you know, are we kind of in that lower range

[00:10:52] in survival? You know, or are we and when I say baseline, I mean on average, like what's that

[00:11:01] frequency that on average we're holding because life has its ups and downs. Right. Like we're never

[00:11:07] it's in flux. But where's our baseline? I think that's really important to know.

[00:11:13] Yeah. What do you think your baseline is Simon? 73.2.

[00:11:17] I don't know. I haven't looked at you. I haven't looked at your mega hurt scale, but I'm gonna

[00:11:23] in general like are you kind of hanging out in that like love area? Are you, you know,

[00:11:29] I would say, I would say out of 10. I'm largely an eight out of 10. I would guess.

[00:11:38] Yeah. I don't always know. Right. I sometimes surprise myself. So I meet somebody. So I've been doing

[00:11:50] admin work and processing podcasts and doing stuff. Yeah, right. And I haven't spoken to anybody.

[00:11:58] And I don't go to the swimming pool. And then I say hello to the people on the reception desk

[00:12:06] of the swimming pool. And I realized that and they say hello back and I realized actually,

[00:12:13] I didn't realize that I was I'm having a better day than I thought I was doing.

[00:12:20] So they've got this thing at the swimming pool. I'll ask them how they are.

[00:12:25] And a lot of them will say not bad. Right. And I occasionally joke with the members of

[00:12:33] staff that I know better because I've been going there 24 years and a lot of them have been there

[00:12:37] a long time. So I'll say not bad. Is that all? Is that the best that you can do or not bad?

[00:12:42] What's wrong? Well, you know, yeah, what is this not bad? It is. What is this not bad? And

[00:12:51] they look at me. What on earth are you on Simon? And so I've been thinking my day is kind of

[00:12:58] a six hour time. And then I say to you know, I say something to them. I realize no, actually, I'm

[00:13:05] you know, I'm I'm I'm a solid a I'm a solid a you know, I'm a solid a. So I don't think I'm always

[00:13:12] my best the best gauge of where I'm at. But I want to take what about you? What about

[00:13:23] I would say I'm probably a solid eight most of the most days. You know, I have my days where I

[00:13:29] dip it's taken me years to kind of get to that eight and and have the capacity to hold it consistently.

[00:13:39] You know, it takes us time to build capacity to make those connections. You know, I worked

[00:13:46] with gratitude for a long time and and and other things, you know, but you have to kind of resolve

[00:13:54] some of those fears and shame stories and narratives that are living inside of you, right? And

[00:14:01] kind of incrementally build more connections in the higher frequency feelings and

[00:14:09] build the muscles to sustain and that capacity sustain it. You know, one thing I like working

[00:14:15] with people on is that sensory awareness. That is how we're taking in life is through our senses.

[00:14:23] And so to have the sensory awareness and kind of be attuned to those subtle energies and shifts

[00:14:30] within ourselves is really kind of fun and great work, because that's how we be

[00:14:38] get more skilled at differentiating things like gratitude. Oh, that's not gratitude. This is

[00:14:44] gratitude. Like we you know, we we're knowing we're differentiating all these subtle sensations

[00:14:51] in our bodies, the thoughts and just it can be kind of a fun engaging way of playing with life and

[00:15:03] realizing we actually have more power than we think in creating the life that we want to live

[00:15:11] and how we interact with life. And when we kind of get that going, it flows over into other

[00:15:19] areas of our life and other relationships, not just the one that we're having with ourselves in life.

[00:15:24] Yeah. Yeah. The big thing for me would be having grace for grace for ourselves when

[00:15:33] when we're not our and when we're below par. The thing is, is even when we're below par,

[00:15:43] we're making judgments on what is right. And so I so wholeheartedly agree with that.

[00:15:50] It I think when we're below par, when I'm having shame come up, it is me seeing a piece of

[00:16:01] myself that might be a belief that I took in, you know, or just a feeling in my body.

[00:16:10] And then I'm judging it and I start to resist it, right? Instead of accepting it as it is

[00:16:17] and kind of allowing it to flow through me, right? Like it's almost like the more I resist,

[00:16:22] the more persistent as I can love that piece of myself, love or accept even if I can't love

[00:16:32] it, if I can just accept that that's there and sit with it. Sometimes I have a wise Shaman friend who

[00:16:41] told me like when those things come up to sit down and invite them to tea and talk with them.

[00:16:47] And then I can if I've had enough of it or if it becomes too much, I can say this visit's over,

[00:16:53] you know, and kind of send them on their way. But there's so much that our feelings are

[00:16:58] trying to say to us. There's narratives within us that they're trying to help us see there's limiting

[00:17:04] beliefs that they're pointing to, right? Misunderstandings about who we are, because our value is immeasurable.

[00:17:11] Our worth is not tied up in these feelings that come and go. Right? These feelings come and go,

[00:17:17] thoughts come and go, and they really are not a reflection of who we are in our essence or

[00:17:24] of our value. Indeed. So what came to mind was the difference between you mentioned,

[00:17:33] you talked about spontaneous gratitude and forced and forced gratitude. Yeah. So what

[00:17:42] what do you mean by spontaneous gratitude? Okay, so spontaneous gratitude to me is that

[00:17:51] genuine love appreciation that bubbles up or something or someone,

[00:18:01] like maybe those awe inspiring moments where you know you are you're looking at a view and

[00:18:07] it's just like, oh, that's beautiful. And then and then you feel like

[00:18:14] thankfulness for that moment. Thankful I got to see that.

[00:18:18] Thankful I got to experience that. I have so much gratitude for my children, right? Like,

[00:18:25] so and when I feel that gratitude because I understand the value of

[00:18:33] gratitude and that frequency and just being able to lean into it. If you amplify it by saying

[00:18:40] it out loud, writing it down kind of just pausing and feeling into your body and connecting with

[00:18:47] the feelings that you're feeling, right? You're magnifying it when you do that.

[00:18:52] And so you're building neural pathways and connections for gratitude.

[00:18:57] And you'll experience more gratitude as you practice that. Yeah. And the forced

[00:19:03] gratitude is people telling us that we should be grateful. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah,

[00:19:09] there's an expectation, right? Well, you should be grateful. Right. But your story and their story

[00:19:15] not lining up, right? And, you know, I know that I can take that in. And I know it's connected

[00:19:26] with being adopted and different narratives that I have used to adapt and cope and survive.

[00:19:37] Right. Like to be a people pleaser that I, if somebody's telling that I should be thankful,

[00:19:42] my mind will be like, yeah, you should be thankful. And yet my body is going, nope, nope, nope.

[00:19:47] Right. So we have to really learn to honor what's happening inside of us, right? And not

[00:19:52] just squish it down and and to recognize that that's their story. Right. And that's not our

[00:20:02] story. That's their story. Oh, and I think adoption is this and you should be grateful.

[00:20:08] Well, that's that's your story. Thank you for sharing it with me. It's not my story.

[00:20:13] Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[00:20:17] One of the things that I was doing whilst my my Mrs. Lynn was on on the sheep,

[00:20:24] the sheep day was I was reading Rebecca, she goes back back to Wellington. She's coming

[00:20:30] on this on the podcast again soon. I was reading her book, which is called Who Is she just released

[00:20:36] this book called Who Is Who Is a Worthy Mother? And it's a history of adoption in the US and

[00:20:45] interwoven with her own kind of her own journey, her own adoption journey. And specifically,

[00:20:52] you know, he also talks about the death of her of her sister. And who was older than her,

[00:21:02] like remember correctly. And it's giving me a real flavor of this.

[00:21:12] And the reason for this gratitude thing, why it see it feels bigger in the US than it does

[00:21:24] for me in the UK. Interesting. And this is just my take. So other other British

[00:21:32] British adoptees may be maybe told differently, maybe feel differently or maybe feel that

[00:21:38] gratitude because I've never been told that. Do you know what I should be grateful?

[00:21:45] Yeah, I wasn't really. I'm done. You know,

[00:21:49] so but I know it's pervasive like I wasn't really either that wasn't my experience,

[00:21:54] but I do know it's pervasive and I did sense it outside of my family from society.

[00:22:00] I can say that like there is a societal narrative as well around this. Yeah.

[00:22:07] And I think it I think it may be something to do with the international flavor. So international

[00:22:16] adoption is bigger, you know, done then in the US than it is in the UK. So you've got all the

[00:22:24] Indian stuff, Vietnam stuff you've got. Yeah, a lot of different things going on.

[00:22:33] And so that it's about, you know, like it's about displacement, it's about after it is post war

[00:22:41] stuff, it's economic. Yeah, I think there's a white savior is there too. It's there. Yeah.

[00:22:50] And I think it may be from a looking at it from a domestic perspective, domestic adoptions

[00:22:58] perspective as well. It may be something to do with the the relative sizes of our social services.

[00:23:07] So I get the feeling and this is just a feeling. So maybe I get the feeling that

[00:23:13] social services are bigger. Social welfare is bigger in the UK than it is in the US.

[00:23:19] So that that gives you a clear reason in inverted commerce to be grateful, you know, like so just

[00:23:29] look at look at healthcare and look at we've got health services in the UK. So healthcare is free

[00:23:35] at points of delivery. You might have to wait for it for a long time, but it is free. Yeah.

[00:23:41] You might have to wait for it in the States, I understand it. You know, just because you're

[00:23:45] paying more so that way. Yeah. So that might be the reason for this gratitude thing because

[00:23:56] you're skipping the social inequality that you may have been subjected to. And she also talks about

[00:24:05] the transracial adoptee piece and racial inequalities. And she also talks about

[00:24:20] Native Americans, Native Indian stuff. And that all is a big that was a big thing. So if they had

[00:24:32] these they had these schools, boarding schools where they were trying to make Native Americans

[00:24:42] white culturally and they didn't work. And that didn't work. They found out that wasn't working. So

[00:24:48] they actually started doing adoption because they thought in it, okay, well maybe it's something

[00:24:53] to do with the boarding school. Maybe that they will feel more, you know, they will be

[00:25:00] become more white if it's actually within a family environment and a boarding school environment

[00:25:05] or so. So I got that. The big thing for me about the, if we go back to the language stuff though,

[00:25:12] is the difference between what we say and how we say it. Because the, what do they say? 80%

[00:25:23] of, 80% of languages is in the tone. I don't know whether it's 80% or not, but it's not what we say.

[00:25:35] It's the way that we say it. Yeah. It's definitely nuanced, right? Like, because there's body

[00:25:46] language, there's word language, there's tone, facial expression. Yeah.

[00:25:53] Yeah. So we came up with this idea of beyond the primal wound, beyond the primal wound

[00:26:05] and language for healing by, and we're doing this within, we're trialing this within the

[00:26:15] Fireside Adoptees Group. So if you want to be part of this ladies and gentlemen, then you need to be

[00:26:23] part of the Fireside Adoptees Group and we do a free intro session on the 11th of May. So we're

[00:26:30] recording this 26th of April. And so what can you share about that intro section in terms of

[00:26:39] what, how what we're talking about is going to be evaluated, discussed, explored within

[00:26:53] this introductory session? Yeah. The introduction is laying a foundation of why language is important

[00:27:04] and how it is powerful to create change. So we'll be going over some of the things that we were talking

[00:27:12] about today, but in more depth around emotions, right? Thoughts and feelings and how we use words

[00:27:21] to communicate our state of being. And we'll also talk about narrative story,

[00:27:28] the roles that we've taken on and how we can really like become, we are the writer of our story,

[00:27:38] whether we have conscious awareness of that or not. And our stories are what create our

[00:27:43] perceptions of the world and how we interact with the world. So we can also become the

[00:27:48] editor of our stories and change them and shift things. And so we have more power

[00:28:00] wheel being changed in our lives than we may have awareness of. And a lot of it has to do with

[00:28:06] our words and our language because that is an expression of the beliefs that are inside of us

[00:28:13] and that's how we move in the world. And that's how we react to what's happening in our lives.

[00:28:19] And so we're going to kind of be taking it all apart bit by bit and just building that foundation

[00:28:27] so that we can lead into the workshop for using metaphor, like creating our own metaphors.

[00:28:37] Because even the word primal wound, it's not empowering at all is it?

[00:28:44] No. It's not. And I think we were talking originally like either beyond the primal wound

[00:28:54] and beyond the fault. So we have this primal wound and that is a metaphor and

[00:29:04] we use that and it becomes part of our narrative as adoptees because we awaken to the truth

[00:29:10] of that story. It was already alive in us. We were living according to it

[00:29:14] and now we have language for it. And it was a powerful moment when that became

[00:29:18] language for me, the primal wound. And coming out of the fog is another. I was already in

[00:29:24] the fog and awakening into this this wound and understanding of this trauma that I carried.

[00:29:32] It was already a reality inside of me. It gave me language that felt empowering and yet

[00:29:38] where did it take? Where what's the next narrative that I need, right? Like that our narratives are

[00:29:44] primal wound and coming out of fog but I needed a healing metaphor, right? For to go further

[00:29:52] than that. What's beyond the primal wound? What's beyond coming out of the fall, right? So

[00:29:59] those were powerful language that awakened something in me that resonated. I knew I had this trauma,

[00:30:11] right? Like once I heard it I was like, that's it. That's the language I needed.

[00:30:15] This is the power of language, right? And coming out of the fog was also the language

[00:30:20] that spoke to my soul as to I had been in this state of not consciously knowing what I was carrying

[00:30:30] within me. And so very helpful and powerful language but now what's beyond that for me, right?

[00:30:39] What leads me toward wholeness and healing? What what what powerful metaphor or language can I

[00:30:47] begin using that takes me beyond that state of being that I already was in before that I got that

[00:30:53] language to verbalize it? So what's striking me is that the podcast listeners are listening to

[00:31:03] this at the moment. They're just taking our word for it. They're not participating in it because

[00:31:11] when we when we sat out to look at this stuff it was all about how we can make sure that it's a

[00:31:19] workshop. There's where people aren't just sat there waiting to take in our wisdom. What you

[00:31:26] know like everybody's healing journey is different but we want to get them involved

[00:31:32] in taking that power back. Right, that ownership. Taking that ownership. Taking that ownership and

[00:31:42] having that interaction rather than taking our word for it. Yes so we do. We have a lot of interactive

[00:31:51] activities tools that they gain and if the listeners notice like the primal wound metaphor,

[00:32:02] the coming out of the fog metaphor, like I said it was already speaking to something

[00:32:08] that was inside of us that resonated. And so the language gave us right like hearing those

[00:32:19] words. It gave us language to describe and experience we were already having. And so it is about

[00:32:28] that wisdom within each of us. As Simon was saying our journeys are all different right? We have

[00:32:34] it. We share the similar trauma. We share same trauma in relinquishment and mother separation

[00:32:43] yet our journeys have been different. There may be additional traumas. There may be you

[00:32:48] but our bodies carry the wisdom, the keys to unlock and move us toward wholeness toward our most

[00:32:56] authentic selves. And so the language, the most powerful language Simon and I believe is coming

[00:33:02] from within you. And so we want it to be interactive and use these activities to help you

[00:33:08] tap into your own language for healing. Yeah so if you're familiar with internal family systems,

[00:33:22] this we're tapping into what Dick Schwartz, what Richard Schwartz the founder of IFS would talk

[00:33:28] about uppercase S self. So this is about who we are at our essence, not the individual part.

[00:33:44] So when you were talking about at the start of the conversation you're talking about the shaman.

[00:33:50] That's what struck me is that that's really about one of our parts. Do you remember?

[00:33:58] Yes. Yeah for me because I've leaned into Carl Jung's work with shadow work and archetypes right,

[00:34:07] those parts that Shane would be a shadow piece of self that we kind of tucked away because

[00:34:14] something happened at some point in our life and it was too much. And so it kind of separates and

[00:34:21] becomes a part. And as we uncover those parts relate to those parts, accept those parts, heal those

[00:34:31] parts they come back into the whole self right like we were we are becoming our most authentic

[00:34:41] essence soul wholeness you know whatever language is your language for that piece of yourself.

[00:34:53] It's interesting that these things overlay you know so you talk about Carl Jung he was the guy

[00:35:00] that said until we make the conscious what he was until we make the subconscious conscious

[00:35:06] yeah until we make the subconscious conscious it will rule our life and we will call it fate.

[00:35:14] Yes. So that that is coming out of the fog. It's when the relinquishment trauma

[00:35:25] moves from the subconscious to the conscious. Right exactly. And that's it so these but these

[00:35:40] things tie but these things are also it sounds to me like all these things are tying in right

[00:35:45] so we're talking about IFS with dick shorts we're talking about what you talked about with them

[00:35:50] from the shame and experiments what we're also talking and in common with Carl Jung these are all

[00:36:00] trends across different it always right inner child work that's a part your inner child and as I become

[00:36:09] more whole because I've done inner child work as well.

[00:36:14] I don't talk to my inner child as much those pieces are becoming those parts are coming home

[00:36:20] and right and and I'm becoming whole so there's less of those parts yeah over time.

[00:36:31] What we're drawing on in this conversation in the in the

[00:36:39] taster session we're running in within fireside on the 11th of May so this is this is 24

[00:36:45] if you listen to say that and also on the in the full course on the 25th and 26th of May

[00:36:54] what we're doing is we're taking all these bits of

[00:37:00] these bits of wisdom and these theories and we're applying them specifically to

[00:37:09] each into our experience as adoptees and empowering the people on the workshops to write their own

[00:37:22] narrative to take back their own power using using this wisdom of others that's that we're

[00:37:32] pointing towards an adoptee context we're taking what is general theory and making it specific to the

[00:37:42] adoptee experience yes because IFS was not created for adoptees Carl Jung was not writing

[00:37:53] for adoptees Shaman again not writing for adoptees so this what they say there's gems that can be used

[00:38:03] for our content in our context in our experience but only if you can see the the specific relevance of

[00:38:14] those we're cherry picking the learnings I guess are we is that what we're doing?

[00:38:22] Yeah I think so like we're taking what has been really potent for each of us and worked for each of us

[00:38:33] and you know separately we both came to our own healing metaphors that were life changing and really

[00:38:41] powerful and so together we both were like yes metaphors are a very potent tool especially

[00:38:49] when it's your own coming from your within yourself and because the the language of the unconscious

[00:38:58] often is symbolism and so or metaphors right like so you can there's there's a quote that we have for the

[00:39:08] for the workshop and I think it's Orson Welles and it's something like you can say the most

[00:39:14] like a metaphors the quickest way to share the most truth right like so it's it's packed with a lot of

[00:39:25] symbolic power and so it's coming from your own unconscious right into your conscious thinking

[00:39:33] it really has it holds like a little key for your path to wholeness and a feeling whole

[00:39:42] my personal metaphor has been a continual guiding compass for me you know so that's what we're really

[00:39:51] hoping that people get from the activities and in their writing in the first free session

[00:39:58] we are sharing more detail in why the power of words and story are a great tool you know and

[00:40:08] then in the two-day workshop we're helping people write their own healing metaphor yeah because we

[00:40:14] haven't even mentioned this yet but obviously primal wounds written by an adoptive mum yeah

[00:40:21] hey do you know where out of the fog came from no I was gonna ask you that either

[00:40:27] yeah we'll have to look that up yeah um but I was thinking about how to the fog

[00:40:33] with the wondered lonely as a cloud right the words were thing and that words aren't

[00:40:41] words have been big for me as a publishing a guy in publishing but at school I wasn't really into

[00:40:49] into English that was when it wasn't my one wasn't my thing so but when we come out as we come

[00:40:58] out of the fog we're talking about being clear um yeah uh but we're but we don't even talk about

[00:41:07] what we're you know we don't extend and one of the things that we're doing in there in the course

[00:41:13] itself is it's looking at well so what is it that we see when we come out when we come out

[00:41:21] out of the fog and that goes back to I guess rewriting um you talked about editing the narrative

[00:41:30] writing our own narrative whatever works for you listener it's like maybe it's about the way

[00:41:38] forward because there isn't a lot in in the in the primal world about the way forward it

[00:41:49] it's it's not empowering it's not it's about understanding the past and I think there's

[00:41:55] so much of this trauma trauma education most trauma education is based on a kind of an idea that

[00:42:06] that understanding the trauma will lead to healing the trauma and it's not we wouldn't

[00:42:14] what we're talking about here is a healing yeah and healing education not not trauma

[00:42:23] yeah I'm really glad you mentioned that um you know I was hosting at fireside last night

[00:42:30] and I talked about words left unspoken and often we are holding on to um our words not speaking them

[00:42:40] out for me it's it's often because of fear a deep-seated fear of abandonment rejection

[00:42:48] and you know but what I'm doing when I do that is I am projecting past past rejection

[00:42:57] onto a present or future situation right because I haven't even had the conversation yet

[00:43:02] and I am basically saying that's what's going to happen so I might as well keep it in

[00:43:09] but I don't know that that's what's going to happen it may go differently right and so often

[00:43:18] trauma is reliving the past every time it comes up whether it's in our thoughts

[00:43:24] that kind of old program we've claimed or in our bodies right we may have emotional flashbacks

[00:43:31] but that's the past and we're carrying it into our daily present now and so

[00:43:39] right how do we move forward and reminds me of something that I

[00:43:46] I saw around there so you know we're running this um some of those who might know but um

[00:43:54] we're running been running this uh questionnaire so being quite the question asking uh adoptees

[00:44:02] some of whom have been on the show some haven't been on the show you know these these questions

[00:44:06] so what does what does healing mean to them what's helped them heal what healing moments come

[00:44:11] to mind what any any what healing what stopped their healing happening and we're also we we're

[00:44:21] exploring this advocacy stuff as well uh at the moment and trying to round that up and something

[00:44:28] I got an email from uh an adoptee maybe it's a message on facebook I think you'd imagine

[00:44:34] and she was talking about she can't advocate but because she's she's so scared

[00:44:47] of the response and I thought how many how many of us are like that how many of us are you know

[00:44:57] you started about servitude you talked about servitude and and playing playing small playing

[00:45:04] small and and and how this this fear of what how people are gonna and how people are gonna

[00:45:13] ignore us cut us down uh challenges and and this this fear of their reaction stops us doing

[00:45:24] stopping us advocating for our for ourselves and for our fellow adoptees right and so we end up

[00:45:30] actually betraying ourselves right and we feel that and that that also can cause shame to grow

[00:45:38] within us right because we're not being true to who we are and the the if we look on the

[00:45:45] basis of frequency I'll take it back to that right our true nature in frequency is actually

[00:45:51] it's actually a high frequency and so when we that's why it feels so uncomfortable when we are not

[00:45:59] like when we're living in these lower places like it's like oh something's wrong I don't like this I

[00:46:03] don't want to stay here right like I don't want to feel this way but it's like how do I how do I

[00:46:09] move to where I want to be what I'm wanting to feel um and you know you are also hitting on

[00:46:18] like the roles that we play by playing small and and they've been comfortable and um you know on the

[00:46:25] one hand we can have our young children on the back for helping us survive and get this far

[00:46:34] and yet those roles are now limiting and they don't feel good anymore right like there was a time

[00:46:39] that was um that it served us and and it had its place right so that way we can take the judgment

[00:46:47] out of it and not judge it and it's funny because when I was young and I was doing these things it

[00:46:51] didn't feel bad at the time because it was serving me at the time but now what's not serving me and it

[00:46:59] feels yucky when I am in those places so these roles right like it's a one of uh Carl Young's work

[00:47:06] is the archetypes from other roles that we invariably have is the adoptees is the archetype

[00:47:12] orphan child right and so that is kind of subservient in all these things but in story after story after

[00:47:21] story and we can we can see it in Harry Potter the orphan child uh comes the magical child

[00:47:29] and that's very powerful because it's like one of the only child archetypes that transmutes

[00:47:36] and overcomes like and becomes something different and so we can kind of unlock and access like if we

[00:47:44] lean into our own our own power of uh transformation yeah you know we and that is through story right

[00:47:56] that's through narrative so that's the power of language is the orphan child becomes the magical

[00:48:01] child and I think what uh what she was doing um I forgot her name um author Harry Potter

[00:48:18] oh um oh it's gone in it come back to us in a minute um yeah well how could that be

[00:48:26] um she she's writing she got so many rejections she was the demand tours that feature in the

[00:48:38] feature in the Harry Potter books are basically her her inner demons and okay and she was writing

[00:48:49] that at a low point in her life yes because she was homeless I believe and she was suffering from

[00:48:57] depression uh and so what what that's that that's summing up this um JK Rowling had to get up

[00:49:10] um so what but what she's doing is I guess Harry Harry's playing out this this role of somebody who

[00:49:23] transmutes is that her is is that a reflection of her own transmuting her past to the towards the

[00:49:31] towards the future and all the all the rejections that she was getting because that's what happens to

[00:49:37] authors right that yeah it's part of the course um they get their submissions their manuscripts get

[00:49:45] um rejected and we don't hear a lot about like so if you look at

[00:49:55] Nancy Varrier's work that doesn't that doesn't form anything going forward does it it's not

[00:50:02] yeah there's not the going forward there's no transmission there's no there's no transmuting

[00:50:07] that I and I don't see it much I see it starting to kind of geek out into our the the adoptee community

[00:50:17] but you there's not much narrative on overcoming we're getting to the other side and I think

[00:50:26] um most likely because of when this all began at our origin point it does feel overwhelming

[00:50:34] at times it can feel like a lot um there's a lot in our bodies you know so it's like

[00:50:42] it can feel impossible and yet it's possible yeah to get to a place where we're really

[00:50:51] you know even if we're not like completely healed and I'm putting that word in little finger

[00:50:55] air quotes you can't see me but I am even if it's not that I do believe that we can get to a

[00:51:00] place where we are enjoying our lives and we love ourselves

[00:51:09] you know and that's we're here to enjoy this life so if we get that that's a win that's in my book

[00:51:16] yeah so feels like a good place to to bring it in um listeners so just to remind you we're doing

[00:51:27] this free recession within fireside adoptees the facebook group on the 11th of May and then we're

[00:51:32] doing this two uh two day course it's just a couple of hours each day on the 25th and 26th and so if

[00:51:39] you need any help on figuring that out then get in touch with yourself or or jude um and there's

[00:51:45] loads of links in there the show notes to what we've been talking here and I'm going to be diving

[00:51:51] into this this frequency of emotions and seeing how it matches with the uh the scale of consciousness

[00:51:57] because I think that's yeah i'm interested in that too yeah uh thanks jude uh thank you listeners

[00:52:03] speak to you thank you that was a fun spontaneous chat thank you bye listeners goodbye