My Life Is Mine Now AJ Bialo

[00:00:00] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm

[00:00:06] delighted to be joined by AJ, AJO Balo back again for another conversation. Either you

[00:00:14] enjoyed it or you're a glutton for punishment as I said. You're just looking like so smiley

[00:00:25] it's absolutely brilliant to see this. It's strange because I don't feel guilty about

[00:00:36] it but ever since I am now done with my family, my adopted family there's no more caretaking

[00:00:45] there's no more calls at two in the morning there's no more do this do that stop what you're

[00:00:50] doing you gotta do this, you know my life is now mine and I don't miss them I don't miss

[00:00:57] any of them. I can just go on from here and I'm getting a lot more work done writing

[00:01:05] wise too because not so much poetry I haven't really written any poetry since probably

[00:01:13] September or October last year which is kind of strange because it's one of the things

[00:01:17] I usually write a lot of but there's been like nothing in my head that goes rhyming poetry

[00:01:25] which is my thing. But I don't know I mean I've been writing more story stories I've been

[00:01:34] going through and redoing old stories that I had that I think maybe I would like to

[00:01:39] publish now I did a kind of funny because the day I buried my aunt on Halloween kind

[00:01:52] of crazy in itself. Well you know it's like two pagans interracial couple less interracial

[00:02:02] lesbian couple you know in a Catholic church on Halloween for a high mass funeral going

[00:02:11] to the cemetery and my wife decides to deck herself out all in black for Halloween she has

[00:02:18] her whole you know boots and the long you know skirt with the it's the whole puffy sleeve

[00:02:26] you know she looked very pagan yeah and yeah it was it was different yeah and when I got

[00:02:36] done with the funeral I wanted to and I had never ever ever thought of doing anything like

[00:02:43] a autobiography. And there was a contest I noticed like that in August the dead

[00:02:55] line was the 31st of October to submit it's a woman's journal online journal and they're

[00:03:05] imprint journal. They're running a contest which I don't usually do either but it was various

[00:03:14] forms of autobiography and when I started laying out my poetry and my short stories they

[00:03:23] just kind of flowed along from actually it's I named it Wednesday's child which was the last

[00:03:33] poem I wrote. It's actually two stanzas of eight the first eight start the book the last and the

[00:03:41] book and it's about you know the old saying Wednesday's child is full of all since I was born on

[00:03:53] Wednesday and I just that was the last poem I wrote but I just noticed everything that I've written

[00:04:03] all over the years just kind of flowed over a time span I mean I never wrote them that way I'd

[00:04:12] never thought about any of hooding it all together I've always separated poetry from stories from

[00:04:18] novels to short stories and and this just came together and I thought it was my challenge to myself

[00:04:27] to finish it so edit everything make sure it all flowed nicely and after I got done with the

[00:04:37] funeral and in the you know brunch afterwards I came home and by you had to have it done by 12

[00:04:43] o'clock midnight yet to have it in and I think I got it like a eleven thirty two sent it off and I you

[00:04:53] know whether it wins whether it comes in whether you know it doesn't doesn't quite matter as much as

[00:05:02] I actually did it and I was proud of the work that it was I think it was very interesting because

[00:05:08] it starts actually before I was born with the death of my grandfather because if my maternal grandfather

[00:05:16] hadn't died stupidly I probably wouldn't be here today and so it starts off with that and it ends

[00:05:29] with being born and then it goes on with other things as we go along to present day pretty much

[00:05:39] and I just I don't know it just doing that was healing not having my family around anymore is healing

[00:05:49] I don't hear from anybody my adopted family anymore at all I haven't heard from most of them in

[00:05:55] years only one of them came to the funeral which I had to take care you know I took care of her so

[00:06:06] I took care of everything else and I don't know I just feel like

[00:06:14] everything I couldn't really stop and take time for myself I now have yeah so whatever

[00:06:20] I'm gonna do from now until the end is all on me and you know um you know just freeing and liberating

[00:06:30] somehow it is a form of healing as you know I was gonna say I was gonna say before you said

[00:06:38] freedom I was gonna say so healing is freedom to you it is because I never had it before

[00:06:47] all of life was dictated by family I swear I could never move far enough away from them to have my own

[00:06:56] life my own make my own decisions to my own thing when I wanted what I wanted I couldn't

[00:07:08] it was hard to be allowed to go out there and make my own mistakes because someone was always

[00:07:12] grabbing me by the collar and saying no you can't do that you know and it took so much of me

[00:07:18] and with my parents I didn't quite you know I think we talked about before I didn't quite realize

[00:07:28] I was gay until in my 20s but you know I was quite the bunch little kid I mean I like doing all the

[00:07:35] boys toys and games and I really enjoyed woodworking and have you know and my mother hated it

[00:07:44] I was supposed to be the cutesy little girl with the frilly skirts and all you know the whole nine yards

[00:07:50] and unless she needed something fixed in the house and then it was okay you know because my father

[00:07:58] wasn't the handy guy so it was up to me I fixed more things in that house so they didn't have to

[00:08:04] call anybody if I got stuck I called an uncle he'd come over he'd yell at my mother and say buy

[00:08:11] her the right tools and she'll get it done in your half to bother me again yeah you know that's

[00:08:18] but the double standards must have been really the double standard on that must have been really

[00:08:24] it was crazy yeah crazy yeah you know it was what I what what I was good at

[00:08:34] wasn't appreciated unless they needed something otherwise I wasn't supposed to you know

[00:08:41] it was just supposed to go away I don't know yeah it was and the whole all of their lives were double

[00:08:51] standards you know I hated going to church because I watched all of them in church on a Sunday and

[00:08:59] the minute they left they were right back to you know they were the most bigoted folks out there

[00:09:06] and just a double standard of you do practice what you preach you know there was never any of that it

[00:09:13] was always it's you're here because I wanted you here and you're gonna do what I tell you to do

[00:09:22] that was always yeah what because you raised you raised a Catholic right yes and this

[00:09:32] from what I it wasn't raised in any particular way I went I went to a school that had a bit of

[00:09:40] religion going on but it was it was it was Protestant religion and we were singing at him

[00:09:48] and listening to a reading and that was about the extent of it but the

[00:09:54] from what I've heard this guilt seems to be a very central theme and guilt and shame yeah

[00:10:07] it is the Catholic thing and I think one part of it too was when I was really young

[00:10:17] mass was in Latin which I didn't understand so I got dragged I had no clue what they were saying all

[00:10:25] it was to me was a show because that's what I understood is what was going on visually because I

[00:10:30] didn't understand the Latin of it and then when Vatican II came along they said in your natural

[00:10:36] language well theirs was Polish didn't know much of that either so what was always just a show to me

[00:10:44] and I could pick out you know the things that just looked like it was a production and what

[00:10:51] wasn't and it always looked more production than anything and I just got dragged along until

[00:10:58] I was old enough to say not doing this anymore so if you if you've got any take on how

[00:11:06] the guilt thing and shame thing was doubled up you know you've got so you've got

[00:11:15] class you've got Catholic guilt and shame which is a spine a theme that runs through for

[00:11:25] everybody in the Catholic thing and then you put adoption is it put an adoption on top of that

[00:11:39] is it I would guess it turbocharges the guilt and shame isn't it?

[00:11:44] Well it does and it causes a lot of self hate really because

[00:11:49] you've got the guilt and shame you know your mother it was always your biological mother you know

[00:12:00] not so much a whore but you know she was loose and you know she had to give you away because

[00:12:08] she couldn't keep you because of that and um

[00:12:15] you know so you start with that and she didn't want you whether she did or not it didn't matter

[00:12:21] it was always she didn't want you you should be lucky you have us and you know

[00:12:26] so there was a lot of that on top of that and anything that resembled anything different from what

[00:12:32] they were got lumped onto being my biological family so you know go ahead do you remember seeing

[00:12:46] through that for the first time? I think I saw through it pretty early because

[00:12:52] there's no way out of it there was only putting up with it. Where are you gonna go? I was

[00:13:02] I mean I was an only child there was no place to go um I remember wishing my mother you know

[00:13:12] I could find her and I could go back at one point I um when my mother was saying if you don't

[00:13:19] behave I'm gonna send you back she had said that just once too many times and I just got right

[00:13:24] in her face and said do it. I'm sick and tired of hearing it just do it she can't be any worse

[00:13:31] than you and I sat on my bed and I waited. Didn't move I said to find her yet I'm ready

[00:13:40] because I just wanted out. You know you can only take so much of being

[00:13:48] put down for people you don't even know. For parts of you you don't even know and there's parts

[00:13:54] of you you don't even think about because you're not allowed to go beyond that surface level with

[00:14:03] their Catholic craziness I would call it that. Don't want to offend any of your Catholic followers but

[00:14:11] you know it was that way in my house and part of it you know there's there was part of it where

[00:14:20] I think most of my mother's family were narcissists because most of us cousins all kind of got treated

[00:14:27] the same to a certain extent. There was one aunt that was worse than my mother there were others

[00:14:34] and the brothers and we all got it pretty much evenly. I got it more because I was adopted

[00:14:42] but we all got it pretty much across the board so on that note we sort of all survived

[00:14:49] and I noticed that they sort of have become like their parents which is sad what little I've seen

[00:14:56] of them. I don't know I just don't have I'm away from that don't want to go back to that.

[00:15:11] There's less you were stuck with that dog map that was nice for you.

[00:15:18] In plus the Catholic school part so and we had nuns who were very strict. Yeah.

[00:15:27] With the battle did seeing through the hypocrisy and was that bringing at all?

[00:15:41] obviously it's not freeing physically because you're still going to the same school but

[00:15:49] like but did seeing through the belief systems that they were trying to impose on you. Did

[00:15:56] that was that in any way freeing or? It was to an extent but you still had to go through the

[00:16:04] motions because you know we went to a Catholic school which meant going to mass once a week

[00:16:09] having to go to confession once a month and it was like I didn't believe in any of that.

[00:16:14] I mean it was it was beyond me so you have to go through the motions or somebody is going to call

[00:16:21] your mother and say there's something wrong with your kid she's not behaving in in church

[00:16:25] and then you're going to get it afterwards you know physical punishment.

[00:16:30] So there was two stories that you know have always stuck out brightly in my mind.

[00:16:40] One was a confession I used to just make stuff up because I didn't know what they wanted to hear

[00:16:46] so I'd go in there and I would make stuff up and there was one priest he was a little off center

[00:16:52] and I got stuck in his line that month and he screamed. I mean we're talking a big church

[00:16:59] sound reverberates everywhere and eventually you have to walk out of that confessional and

[00:17:04] everybody knows it was you he was yelling at. You know it was it was

[00:17:11] I just wanted to run away at that point because you know

[00:17:15] not believing and then getting yelled at for that. I'm not even sure what he was yelling about

[00:17:27] I don't remember saying anything to him you know that was anything

[00:17:34] that big of a deal so that was one and the other was the year I went from third grade to fourth grade

[00:17:43] one of my aunts was a nun and she taught fourth grade in the school where I was. I spent all summer

[00:17:53] agonizing over the fact that I was going to have my aunt as my fourth grade teacher

[00:17:59] and she'd be calling my mother all the time going do you know what your daughter did today

[00:18:05] and somewhere around the middle of August I got great relief they transferred her somewhere else

[00:18:14] yeah to another diocese and they're part of the state you know it was like this huge

[00:18:21] sigh of relief that at least it wouldn't be someone who knew me who wasn't my mother's sister

[00:18:28] you know it just invaded everything

[00:18:38] so talking about the change and the external constraints and the the brainwashing

[00:18:52] and the and the dogma yeah they tried their best on that one try the best in them

[00:18:59] and and you talked about you mentioned self hate which is why why can't I ever do anything right

[00:19:09] why can't I ever just do anything I just want to get through my day why does why does there have

[00:19:15] to be something that I did that they don't like that I didn't think about beforehand you know

[00:19:22] it didn't matter what it was it may have been I left a piece of clothing on the floor or you know

[00:19:29] didn't like the way I made dinner that night or because I'm both my parents were so I made dinner a lot

[00:19:36] um it could have been anything you know and it was always I can never do anything right

[00:19:45] and so I always tended to go farther and farther and farther and farther inside of myself

[00:19:52] I tried writing but my mother would find it everywhere anywhere I wrote notebooks diary stories

[00:20:01] whatever I wanted when I was younger she would find it and criticize it

[00:20:09] as being rubbish basically I was never allowed to just have any space of my own

[00:20:18] and for a long time I tried hiding my writing I would put it in a lot drawer I would put it

[00:20:26] under the mattress I would put it in the closet she would always find it there was no privacy in her house

[00:20:32] and at some point I just crawled far enough in where I took my notebooks in a book of matches

[00:20:39] went to the park and with the mon fire and went home you know make sure the fire went out first

[00:20:44] but then yeah I went home and I didn't write again until I was in college

[00:20:50] and I had to keep the journal for two courses I was taking

[00:20:56] and that was like panic city because why would I want to open that up I'd spend so much time pushing

[00:21:05] that down why would I want to bring it back up and I even tried talking to my teacher I says

[00:21:14] there are any other way I can get out of this without doing the journal he's like you know

[00:21:19] yeah gonna pass she gonna fail but you're gonna do it and um

[00:21:25] that's when I started writing again in college when I was 30

[00:21:30] okay so it took a long long time to just start coming out of where I was

[00:21:41] I was talking to a coach this morning and she was she came she was talking about this idea of

[00:21:54] thinking as a escape mechanism for feeling and I remember seeing a parapetist like

[00:22:08] eight nine years ago and she we did a few sessions together and then she gave me these

[00:22:16] this this single piece of paper that some notes that she typed up

[00:22:24] and it was a it says Simon

[00:22:30] evades Simon evades feeling through thinking by thinking

[00:22:38] yeah and this coach lady reminded me of that fact which I'd

[00:22:44] begun uh about reading eight years ago whatever it was

[00:22:53] does that he looks dangerous so feeling as dangerous

[00:22:58] having feelings as dangerous if you have no way to channel those feelings

[00:23:05] because there are only going to be channels inward so why not just shut them off and use what you

[00:23:12] have left which is rational thinking I could think about anything I would not feel it

[00:23:20] I didn't feel things like you know normal kids did you know I never got into the

[00:23:26] oh let me buy my mother a mother's a card why you know I had no feelings for her other than fear

[00:23:35] and hate because of oppression I didn't know what love was until I was in my 20s

[00:23:45] and that was hard to just let somebody in for that that was somebody that I wanted to be with

[00:23:57] feelings are dangerous because you're putting yourself out there

[00:24:02] and you don't know if somebody else is going to just throw it back at you that's worse than

[00:24:11] having you know did not have the feelings in the first place having a thrown back at you for

[00:24:17] whatever menial reason but you know I could think about

[00:24:25] I got my undergraduate degree in philosophy that tells you how much thinking I did

[00:24:33] I uh I liked reading and that's where I got all of my information from I spent hours in libraries

[00:24:42] my father took me to the library or Saturday I bring home stacks of books to read

[00:24:46] that's that was my world there were no feelings

[00:24:52] it was just okay let me think about the story I just read and what does it really mean I mean

[00:24:57] it was all mental there was nothing nothing emotional

[00:25:06] so yeah you can understand Simon doesn't you feel like

[00:25:11] but it's I'm laughing too because it's like that wasn't obvious to me

[00:25:18] but it seems like it was really obvious to you yeah

[00:25:22] but you yeah yeah you you've kind of done that uh and it was just a throw away line from this

[00:25:29] coach I was speaking to this morning um and I'm and I'm laboring the point really

[00:25:35] just to underline it in case anybody else is late to the instant

[00:25:41] late to that insight right because clearly you were early to that insight

[00:25:45] oh yeah

[00:25:47] early in not knowing what to you know I never knew should I try or not and I always did not

[00:25:58] first for a long time until I felt really really really comfortable which took a lot I mean

[00:26:06] I had I didn't do friends friends required you had to have some sort of communication

[00:26:13] on some level of feeling sharing and I didn't do that I had one friend through grammar school

[00:26:21] and when I came out you know we talked every once in a while and when I came out I figured

[00:26:26] I would at that point in my life it was this is who I am so either you like me for who I am

[00:26:34] or you don't so my one friend through all of grammar school said when I came out to her

[00:26:40] you're not going to try anything are you

[00:26:47] yeah no get out of my car go away

[00:26:54] but it's not just the romantic feelings that I'm down your story um um they're all yeah

[00:27:01] especially the anger if you let it out sometimes you can't stop it

[00:27:07] if you give it permission to express and come out sometimes it finds rage and it just keeps going

[00:27:18] more than you want and you have to end up apologizing in the long run for things you've never meant

[00:27:25] to say or do I mean learning how to control that because there was a lot of anger and rage

[00:27:34] from that was one of the few feelings I had and just learning to control it because it was always

[00:27:45] I learned the best thing I could do when I went home to see my mother or family or anyone was

[00:27:51] they'd say oh how what's new and what's going on and I flat face nothing I don't care if I just

[00:27:58] won the lottery not in you know it's just it was easier to just disengage and just answer whatever

[00:28:07] you know questions they had on a superficial level so I could get the hell out of there

[00:28:13] it was never I didn't want to engage because they always wanted to fix my life the way they wanted it

[00:28:21] if I said oh I had a fight with a friend well what did you do wrong

[00:28:25] what did you do to cause a friend to be angry with you you got to go apologize and talk to your

[00:28:30] friend no I don't you know that was between me and whoever this other person was not you

[00:28:38] thanks I don't need to fix things that are broken that I don't want to fix

[00:28:42] that's broken I move on and

[00:28:46] things just I mean it just never changed there were so many different levels of

[00:28:57] just I don't know did you did you blame yourself for your feelings because that's something

[00:29:04] that I've done

[00:29:05] I did and I didn't I mean I did to the

[00:29:17] until I could resolve my adoption part of it and realize my mother my birth mother wasn't a bad

[00:29:25] person and I'm not a bad person either it was hard um I was angry at her for leaving me with

[00:29:37] these crazy people because no matter how crazy her life had been it was a bad is bad is where I

[00:29:45] ended you were you were you were fruit from that's what I thought you were fruit from the poison trait

[00:29:52] yeah yeah definitely I mean it was my adopted mother bought into the fact of the blank slate

[00:30:01] you know that she that I would become whatever she wanted you know because I was a

[00:30:08] a little three month old baby when they got me and you know she could mold me into whatever she wanted

[00:30:15] me to be so what do I was I was meant to do two things for her give her grandchildren and take

[00:30:22] care of her when she got older she told me that those were her two reasons for adopting me

[00:30:29] she didn't get the grandkids what I was never having children after that upbringing

[00:30:35] and she got the second part whoops yeah where it goes I lost you can see me I can't see

[00:30:47] okay where are you I'm here I hear you I don't see you we can keep talking yeah um

[00:31:00] um connecting I don't want to write a message anyway um can I ask you a question on the blank slate thing

[00:31:11] yeah so what was on the slate if you weren't a blank slate on the slate um that I would be

[00:31:23] uh my mother used to dress me up in all these frilly little dresses

[00:31:28] usually white or light pink and you know the patent leather shoes and

[00:31:38] she would spank the hell out of me she then she sent me out to play

[00:31:41] and I come in and be dirty and she would have a fit I was just supposed to it was like almost

[00:31:46] like she wanted a doll and I was supposed to be the human doll

[00:31:50] and I don't know

[00:32:02] and she tried to force me into that space and the more I tried to back away from that

[00:32:11] the more she tried to drag me into it so I mean she she wanted this perfect little doll that

[00:32:22] she could raise and who would become this obedient daughter and would marry the

[00:32:29] perfect guy and give her grandchildren at one point

[00:32:34] she actually wrote to I don't know where she got it was some magazine she got it out of I don't know

[00:32:44] um these guys who were looking to date women and get married most of them from other countries

[00:32:51] and she wrote to them

[00:32:53] and then when they wrote back she gave me the letters and said

[00:33:04] write them back oh there you are

[00:33:09] and I said you started this

[00:33:13] I'm not writing these people

[00:33:16] guys from India or Russia or you know the Middle East somewhere who were looking for an easy

[00:33:21] way the citizenship by marrying somebody in America you know no

[00:33:28] I'm never going to happen you started this you fix it

[00:33:32] and I'm laughing because Facebook show

[00:33:35] I'm laughing because Facebook showed me a picture of um you know one of the Ukrainian brides

[00:33:44] this this afternoon and it's the same thing it's the same thing in a different

[00:33:51] uh in the reverse order in a different yeah in reverse order in a different form in a

[00:33:56] in a in a new technology um I want to go back to the the the scary feeling stuff so

[00:34:07] how's your relationship with strong feelings now

[00:34:14] you don't actually have that meant I mean strong feelings as in

[00:34:23] well it's excuse me it's like you're free you you're free now of your uh of that yeah I mean once

[00:34:32] I moved out whether it was a successful relationship with somebody else or not it was still

[00:34:39] it was something that I was learning about me I was becoming more comfortable with me

[00:34:44] inside of myself and it took a lot longer

[00:34:48] then once I started writing that journal for the college professor I ended up taking

[00:34:53] three or four more courses with him just to keep the journal work going

[00:34:57] because he provided a lot of feedback and I just let him have it I mean he just

[00:35:02] yeah I wrote about everything and anything adoption my parents

[00:35:10] relationships he got more than he was bargaining for and it was always on topic because he

[00:35:15] would give a certain topics to focus and he was one of my philosophy teachers in my major so

[00:35:23] he got a lot more than he bargained for but he found it interesting he would write me little notes

[00:35:28] some in some in Greek some in English and I actually got the license plate of one of those things

[00:35:37] the state wouldn't let me have my old license plate back

[00:35:40] did I the specialty plate that I had for 30 years so um I got a new one and they approved it

[00:35:48] I'm the state of New York is just nuts they approved it in like less than a day and it's in

[00:35:55] Greek it's Spodias I could only use eight out of the nine characters that spells it correctly but

[00:36:01] Spodias and Greek is serious figured if I were used the English word series they're going to give me

[00:36:07] what do you mean by that so I used the Greek words Spodias which he always used to tell me

[00:36:13] was but he would write things that I was a very serious person and I was always

[00:36:22] throughout all of school I was always a good essay writer you know the teacher would give you this

[00:36:32] 10 page essay to write and I was really good at being because it was all mental

[00:36:39] I could write on any topic I could research it I could give you the best you know 10 20

[00:36:44] in graduate school it was supposed to be a 30 page paper mine was 50 because I put in

[00:36:51] diagrams my own diagrams which it was in linguistics so it was doing linguistic

[00:36:58] um diagramming and everything I could do that until the cows came home but if you asked me to talk

[00:37:06] about how I felt I couldn't do that because I didn't feel it it took a long time to do that and once

[00:37:17] I started doing that with the journaling again it unleashed this floodgate and I even I mean

[00:37:30] I continued journaling even after and a lot of my stories that I wrote I did four years ago

[00:37:37] I was in a car accident and I ended up with concussion and few injuries and I hit my rock bottom

[00:37:46] for depression so I actually got a referral to do some counseling and when we were talking we were

[00:37:53] talking about all the writing that I do and most of what our sessions were

[00:38:02] when we wanted to talk about feelings were all of my characters because that's where I put all

[00:38:09] of my feelings into all of my characters I got to play with their emotions where it was safe

[00:38:18] they got to do the feeling and then you know what would be the consequence

[00:38:24] of something coming back on them how would I how would I do this how what was my idea of what

[00:38:30] I wanted in I would play it out in characters in different scenarios in different stories

[00:38:36] and that was the most freeing thing because then I could just start transferring some of the stories

[00:38:46] to me and condensing parts of characters into me to be able to put that out

[00:38:54] in a way of feeling that I was actually having feelings other than just rage and you know

[00:39:00] I didn't have to put holes in the wall anymore when it was punching you know it

[00:39:08] and now that to bring it back now that I'm no longer the family caretaker anymore or have nothing

[00:39:16] to do with family anymore it's like now I can just be whoever I want

[00:39:23] and that's okay when I when I went to when I when we had my aunts funeral at church

[00:39:34] I said to my spouse I said I'm betting the same people who are at our wedding are going to be

[00:39:41] the same people who are here to say goodbye to my n chain not related supposed family

[00:39:49] but the family that we had built together and I was right they were all there

[00:39:55] we all got together afterwards they all went to the cemetery with us it was like

[00:40:00] my family that I had built came to support me and to say goodbye because they knew her

[00:40:06] because she came to all of our holiday dinners until she was too old to you know participate anymore

[00:40:19] and that was a big thing for me to know this is my family no matter what anybody else says

[00:40:27] just because you're related to me by legal whatever you know from adoption or by blood through

[00:40:37] biological family you're not my family you don't

[00:40:42] interact with me you don't cherish the stories I'm telling you you know you throw them back at me

[00:40:52] I don't I don't need that anymore I can free myself from all of that I mean taking care

[00:41:00] of my aunts funeral was the last time I will ever go in a Catholic church I'm done with that

[00:41:06] I am pagan I enjoy I mean I'm very earth centered only playing in my garden it's very relaxing

[00:41:18] it makes it helps me ground myself and working with the dirt and raising flowers and

[00:41:26] and working with animals I have all of my critters one was over here a few minutes ago wanting

[00:41:31] attention you know they're my world my everyday world and that's okay because I still have my

[00:41:41] stories and my characters you know they're they're my friends I guess I don't know

[00:41:50] he talked to the cats a lot about my imaginary friends my mother always worried I had imaginary

[00:41:56] friends that I wouldn't have real friends and well I really didn't but my imaginary friends were

[00:42:02] real enough to me and they were good enough for me because they were safe I didn't have to worry

[00:42:06] about what they thought they were gonna think what I told them to think and you know that was

[00:42:13] freeing in its own way and they were safe they were safe

[00:42:19] they weren't going to you know yell and scream at you or try to tear you down

[00:42:30] yeah I see you deep in thought yeah um

[00:42:40] the so much here's not so much here there's so much about the

[00:42:45] cathartic nature of of so much here about the thinking to avoid feeling there's so much more

[00:42:54] about so much more about putting feelings into other into the characters so that presumably

[00:43:03] that these characters can explode and you don't explode any right right and to actually

[00:43:13] when I worked with my counselor one of the things you know you should always ask me which

[00:43:17] characters I was working on and what was going on in their life so that I could bring it out

[00:43:23] in another way which was very cathartic for me and um so much my my characters didn't quite

[00:43:32] explode the way I would have they were more of trying to find another way to work around

[00:43:39] what was a proper way of response other than going boom because I already had that in real life

[00:43:45] I could go boom pretty easy um it was finding that mental process of having a conversations with

[00:43:54] character's monitor too or you know sometimes just self thought of a character playing out scenarios

[00:44:02] of what they were going to do with you know when they met somebody else or was going out to do something

[00:44:10] and it was always it was usually a long process I mean I would play with characters for hours

[00:44:18] days on end and play out various things and it wasn't always with the pen and paper sometimes

[00:44:26] it was just mentally daydreaming it and how to work out and solve the problem

[00:44:34] so that they did go boom so that they had a better relationship with in their life than

[00:44:45] what I had and to see if I could take some of what I created in them

[00:44:50] and play it out in my world have you heard of some people call it parts work and some people

[00:45:02] call it internal family systems and it's a it's a type of therapy have you come across this

[00:45:09] I have not but it sounds kind of like what I'm doing sort of kind of

[00:45:14] yeah without the therapist yeah so the the the the guy that called the guy that founded this thing

[00:45:25] internal family systems also known as part of is a guy called Richard Schwartz he goes out

[00:45:32] Dick Schwartz and I listened to one of his books and it's called No Bad Parts

[00:45:42] and the title kind of says it all for me yeah so it's about

[00:45:50] and loving every part of you it's about

[00:45:57] loving even the angry part it does yeah and that for me relates to that question that

[00:46:10] I asked earlier on which was like

[00:46:14] did did you

[00:46:20] I can't remember how I said do you you know do you accept your own emotions because

[00:46:26] do you criticize your own emotions so I would I would be

[00:46:31] I agree about being angry which is the opposite of which is exactly the opposite

[00:46:38] of of ditch Schwartz's appeal which would be to love the angry part of us

[00:46:48] I I can I actually like that idea of the patchwork because I sort of see that as what I

[00:46:57] have been doing and so many times you know when I talked with other adoptees they would always say

[00:47:04] I think I was like a hug your inner child I didn't know how to do that I didn't even know how

[00:47:11] to find my inner child

[00:47:16] that was not a helpful way for me to do something

[00:47:21] so I guess finding my inner child went through my characters you know it was

[00:47:28] I pick names that I liked and you know because I've never liked you know I've had too many names

[00:47:36] in my life you know my birth name my adopted name and

[00:47:44] none of them meant anything

[00:47:47] my my birth name was because they wouldn't let my birth mother leave the hospital without naming me

[00:47:53] in case I didn't get adopted you know I had a name first and last and then you know

[00:48:03] my adopted parents changed that well at least the first name you know they didn't

[00:48:11] they didn't like to name because it had my mother didn't like

[00:48:15] nicknames she was a stickler for that I don't understand because she gave me a name that

[00:48:21] has more nicknames than I know what to do with I like age 8's nice and short

[00:48:29] but uh you know it's

[00:48:36] letting the character be angry and not being angry with the character it's

[00:48:41] letting that out

[00:48:44] and what happens after when the exhaustion comes in what do you do with that how do you handle

[00:48:51] getting back up again that was big thing for and and deciding how you're not going to do something

[00:49:01] again and how you're going to change something how you're going to change things so they work out

[00:49:06] differently in another time you know and just working on that it's not being angry with

[00:49:12] the angry it's it's more being detached from the feeling isn't there the feeling is

[00:49:26] given to somebody else and you want to see how they're going to do it based on what you know

[00:49:31] how people you know respond in certain situations how you observe that

[00:49:38] how they're going to respond and how you can learn from what they do

[00:49:45] and how you want something to change and figure out

[00:49:51] with a great deal of you know that's been a big very big eraser to change you know things

[00:49:58] in your character to work out and the way you want it to work out the way you want it to feel

[00:50:04] still instead of what it is so that you can change it in yourself yeah come on can I go back to

[00:50:13] that blind slate ah okay because I'm just floating an idea here okay and so my question to my

[00:50:27] question I think was what so we're not blind slates we're not know but that's what they you know

[00:50:35] in they thought yeah they thought that and this and the adoption agencies really pushed that

[00:50:43] you know I mean I was nothing like my adopted parents you know there's always those stories of

[00:50:49] of you want

[00:50:54] you're the chosen child well why you know my parents were all of skin dark hair dark eyes

[00:51:02] I had green eyes and bright red hair and freckles I look nothing like them

[00:51:09] why would you if you had a choice of all these you know the chosen baby story

[00:51:14] if you had the choice of all the children in the nursery why did you pick me because I'm nothing

[00:51:18] like you how did you think you could make me something that I'm not that's what I always wonder

[00:51:28] you know there there's been so many crazy ideas the blank slate the chosen child

[00:51:34] that you should be grateful for you know so many non adopted people look at you and go

[00:51:44] what's wrong with you they wanted you you know you're special no I wish I were adopted no you don't

[00:51:53] you they don't see adoption for what it is they just look at you know they think you're getting

[00:52:00] so much more than they are and that your life is so much better than theirs is

[00:52:08] and I always looked at their life is but you know who you are you know where you came from

[00:52:13] your mother is your mother you know you have this relationship with her

[00:52:19] I don't know my identity other than what people are trying to force on me

[00:52:25] so yeah the blank slate never quite worked

[00:52:32] and I paid the price for that steeply you know with she thought

[00:52:40] that she could make me what she wanted you know that she wanted everything like she wanted

[00:52:46] everything her siblings had all of her siblings had children of their own

[00:52:52] and she that's what she wanted and couldn't have because she was infertile she had three miscarriages

[00:53:00] and um yeah I was never going to be that

[00:53:07] and she just wouldn't give it up

[00:53:13] yeah right ever yeah you know

[00:53:22] so now there's you know you said that you said at the top of the interview my life is mine

[00:53:33] it is it's mine now me and my wife that's it and our cats and dogs and her sisters my in-laws

[00:53:41] nieces nephews we all get along we all you know there's no there's just you know come on over

[00:53:49] we're having dinner let's do this uh we're going camping come on out and we're all camp together

[00:53:55] and it's just more family when I went to my mother-in-laws funeral

[00:54:03] they're Baptist quite the eye opener about a Baptist you know black

[00:54:11] Baptist funeral it was it was the biggest celebration of a life I ever saw and they celebrated her

[00:54:20] it wasn't you know we're gonna pray over your dead body now so you don't go to hell you're

[00:54:25] gonna go with the angels and you know no they celebrated her life and how they were going to

[00:54:31] miss her and how much she contributed to their life it was like so different it was upbeat and

[00:54:42] uplifting versus I don't even know you know smells and bells and just the ritual of you know

[00:54:54] they're gone now in this view they are they're not totally gone now they're still with you

[00:55:02] because they were always with you during your life so they are with you now you still have the

[00:55:08] memories the good memories of what happened with them it didn't happen over here in in Catholic world

[00:55:17] so that really gave me quite the huge eye opener yeah so it was interesting

[00:55:25] so hopefully we've opened some eyes today

[00:55:33] what hope so I hope there's I know I can't be the only one out there who

[00:55:39] I know some people who went through a lot worse than I did

[00:55:47] I got the emotional in some physical abuse but there's a lot of other adoptees out there

[00:55:53] you know who had the sexual abuse as well growing up but I don't envy them that

[00:56:06] no no here's one for you to think about I was I'm chatting with one adoptee in one of the forums

[00:56:14] I'm on you're trying to work out a little article to put on our front page of our web site

[00:56:21] and it's called the moon people and a lot of adoptees have always felt that because we never had

[00:56:31] our first chapter of knowing our identity that it's almost like sometimes we feel like we were just

[00:56:40] dropped off by aliens with no past just going forward being taken in and made into what passes

[00:56:51] and he said when their astronauts went to the moon when Buzz Aldrin came back home

[00:57:04] there was nobody he could share that experience with that would understand

[00:57:09] what it meant to have gone through all of that to get to the moon and on the moon and back

[00:57:16] and all he saw and didn't see in the darkness of space except other astronauts

[00:57:24] and so he said the only people I can relate to truly are other moon people

[00:57:32] and I think that's the same for adoptees the only ones that we can really relate to are other

[00:57:37] adoptees we know what everybody pretty much is going through

[00:57:41] the good, the bad, the indifferent I mean there are a lot of people who join the forum

[00:57:49] are forum who come in and say hey I had a great adoption my parents were really great it's

[00:57:54] like well okay then why are you here we're here to work on issues if you had a great life yeah

[00:57:58] but I've got problems with I don't you know I don't feel like I belong here in there okay well done

[00:58:03] you know you have to reconcile your how great was you know you can have the greatest

[00:58:12] adopted family but you're still the adopted child who's always treated differently

[00:58:18] you're not the same as everybody else

[00:58:24] I was supposed to be like my cousin who was a year and four days older than me

[00:58:29] and it was always why can't you do things like here why can't you do you know

[00:58:34] you know why do you have to play baseball why can't you be the little pretty cheerleader

[00:58:38] I like sports sorry but it was always that comparison it was always you know and nobody understands

[00:58:48] that like another adoptee you yes you have to do a lot of your healing on your own but you can do

[00:58:58] a lot of healing and helping other people heal by just affirming you know what they're feeling

[00:59:07] you can honestly say you know what they're feeling and you can talk about those feelings

[00:59:13] as deeply or as superficially as you want to and that's okay you're going to go deeper when

[00:59:19] you're ready if all you can do is talk to superficial and angry now get it out get it out until

[00:59:27] it isn't there anymore and just keep getting it out and eventually you start moving over to

[00:59:34] exploring what that anger is about and exploring what all of those feelings are about

[00:59:40] of never being enough of always feeling outside looking in and you know

[00:59:51] I find a lot of brothers and sisters are moon people you know

[01:00:02] I'm there for them they're there for me and and and there within that sacred space that nobody else can

[01:00:13] invade we grow and we deal with our lives our children our spouses our

[01:00:22] divorces are you know everything that we deal with in everyday life and how it's compounded by

[01:00:29] feeling like we were abandoned and thrown away and not wanted and all of it

[01:00:36] and we help each other through those and sometimes we just finally come out on the other side

[01:00:45] a little more whole than we were when we started I think for me that's healing

[01:00:55] yeah yeah thanks Ajay thank you

[01:01:05] it's been fun I always like talking with you I love talking with you too so great

[01:01:11] listen is check out the show notes and there's a link to Ajay's

[01:01:17] previous interview and all her socials on the website and stuff like that you find out what she's

[01:01:23] saying she's what she's working on now what she's doing and until next time we'll see you'll

[01:01:28] very soon take care bye