Regardless Of Our Mood - Adrian Burks

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the Thriving Adoptees podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Adrian, Adrian Burks. Looking forward to our chat today, Adrian. Really looking forward to it, my friend. Me too, Simon. So, Adrian was an American footballer. This is what I've just learned today. And you were in Division 1 of college. Yep. So, it just goes to show you what you learn every day.

[00:00:34] So, Thriving Adoptees, what does that mean to you, Adrian? Thriving Adoptees, well as you so put it with your rubric of Thrive, I think taking it into my own definition,

[00:00:49] I would say, a Thriving Adoptee is someone who is able to cope and to live in the world, going through daily lives through all, whether it be trauma or not trauma, or through their own shared experiences.

[00:01:05] I think Thriving is, you know, being able to comprehend what you went through, to understand as best as you can what you went through, and to be able to navigate the world in the space that feels beneficial and good to you and your family, if you have one. I feel like I'm thriving at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was, I just wrote down feel good there, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[00:01:34] And I just, I want to, I said it recently, so I've, I already probably said it about 500 episodes ago. Thriving doesn't always mean feeling good in my, in my definition of the word thriving, right? So, yeah. For me, it's not necessarily when I say feel good, it's not, oh, I'm being happy and stuff. It's, it's managing expectations, right?

[00:02:03] So, like, feeling good is being able to adhere and to recognize the things that you went through so that you could navigate the space. And I just say feel good because it feels good regardless of the mood that I'm in, whether I'm sad, whether I'm angry, whether I'm frustrated, whether I'm happy.

[00:02:23] I just want to, to recognize that feeling in itself, is a, looking back out of it in a, in a thorough like perspective, that feels good.

[00:02:33] I feel like so often I'm I have been in the past or just do things have been unable to recognize the situation or feeling that I'm have I have had I've had or have I'm going through but I feel like it feels good in a sense to have the recognition regardless of the actual mood that you're feeling. Do you know what I mean?

[00:02:59] I think so so let me take a run at this on one level it's about recognizing what's going on for you and kind of being okay with what's going on for you so the opposite would be fighting the feelings is that kind of what you're saying?

[00:03:26] That's exactly what I'm saying. I have for a long time have fought the feeling or like if something was coming up like no no no no that's not it don't care like I just would push it down and not have the actual recognition recognition of what I was going through at the time. And so having the recognition of that.

[00:03:54] So as well as being a football player and I'm talking American football obviously. Yeah American football guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:09] Adrian is also you know you were an actor and director producer right because when when you started going into the when you started talking about the different feelings you went into kind of actor mode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where you were living it. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Your face changed the whole thing.

[00:04:33] It wasn't like you know so I would do it like whether I'm feeling sad tired depressed right and and I'm quite monotone about it but there was a. But when you. Oh yeah I'm expressive. You were expressive. You were like feel good like I feel like yeah I'm extremely I am extremely expressive.

[00:04:52] I think also to like the the journey that I'm taking right now that I'm embarking on gives me the space to be able to feel all the things that I'm going through right now as I am going to meet my biological father as I am interviewing other adoptees as I am getting their stories that are wide range variety of different outcomes.

[00:05:21] And shared and different experiences. It's allowed me to really kind of live and that expressive state to be able to connect with other people that I'm I am currently working with. Yeah. We got to that in a minute. Because I don't want to give. Give you lots of opportunity to share about that Adrian. Yeah.

[00:05:49] Adrian's up to something really cool within this. Within this space. You use this. You use the word comprehend. You're talking about comprehending your feelings. I think comprehending your feelings. Maybe comprehending. Sorry. Comprehending trauma.

[00:06:07] I had this big light bulb moment last last week when I went to an adoption conference down in down in London. And people were talking about adoptees behaviors. You know, adopted kids behavior.

[00:06:29] And from what I can gather, the biggest challenge that adoptive parents have is our behavior. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so we're basically trauma driven behavior. So anger driven violence would be an example of this. Right?

[00:06:59] So that's their biggest challenge with us. Interesting. Okay. And I was thinking about where do we feel? Where do we, where are our adoptees on, where are we on that? And I was thinking about the fact that we don't remember the trauma. The trauma is pre-verbal. It's pre-menging.

[00:07:29] It's pre-cognition. Right? So we don't understand the drivers of our behavior. Yeah. So we're confused about our behavior. Mm-hmm. And there, as adoptees, as adopted kids, until we come out of the fog. Right? So until we come out of the fog, like I didn't come out of the fog until I was 40. Right?

[00:07:58] So for 40 years, I didn't comprehend, to use your word. Right? I didn't comprehend. I didn't under, not comprehend. It's bigger than that. I didn't, I wasn't even aware. Aware. Yeah. That's the word. Yeah. I wasn't aware of it. So, so the, the, the adoptive parents, their biggest problem is our behavior.

[00:08:25] And as adoptees, we don't know the cause of our behavior. I, the, the, the, and so the world continues on. Yeah. You know. Until we help kids understand the drivers of their behavior. 100%. 100%. You know what's crazy, or not crazy, but what's extremely interesting about that is

[00:08:53] opt in to, like, I thought I was out of the fog before. I realized in the last year or two that there were some things that I never was unaware that they were a cause of some of my reactions to things. That they were, like I said, I thought that, I thought that right before high school.

[00:09:23] But I, you know, our, me and my twin brother story is very, very interesting and different. We're having, you know, there are no two stories that are the same or alike and everyone differs, but ours is very, very unique as well. And we had a lot of things that happened to us that let us face some of the things that we had growing up, but also things that we were, like you said, unaware of that we didn't know that there was a cause of why we react to the way we, things we do.

[00:09:53] And I thought that I was out of the fog and stuff, but even more recently in the last, like, I would say two years to be more precise, is there are things that I was unaware of even now. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what you mean. And I'm going to try and sum it up more precisely than I summed up the big light bulb moment that I had last week. We come out of the fog. We come out of the fog.

[00:10:23] We come out of the fog. We come out of the fog. Right. So there's one big, there's probably one big moment. And then it's a series of little moments that were one for the rest of our lives. And that is what I am finding. I thought that there was a more complete way. I thought, oh, I'm good. I'm done.

[00:10:53] Well, I think, well, I mean, there's a couple of like, you know, circumstantial factors that make me feel the way that I feel. But how I, to answer your question, how I feel is, it feels, it feels a couple of things. It feels rewarding. I also feel a little annoyed. To be honest.

[00:11:21] And I think, I think all of the feelings in between, I feel a little annoyance, a little frustration. I also feel excited that there is more. And also like, why? I thought that I had, you know, I thought we were done here. Yeah. So if there's one word to sum all that up, would it be mixed? It's a definitely mixed bag. Yes. It's a mixed bag of feelings.

[00:11:52] Right. As a father, I think too, right. I'm doing a lot of like inner child work and addressing some things and having these conversations, especially as a father. Sometimes you kind of revisit those things as you play with your kid and have those moments. There are some things that I have found that I was like, ooh, some extreme light bulb moments. Like, oh, of course. That's why I do that and feel that.

[00:12:22] And of course, I should have paid attention to those things. But like, they just weren't, I wasn't aware of those things. But as a, like I said, as a father, it's helped, it's helped me be able to address those things, especially well, you know, living in that space of creativity and fun.

[00:12:47] And also as watching him navigate the world and things that come to him that are blows his mind. And then having those conversations with him also reignites my thoughts on those things. Yeah. Can you give me an example? And the listeners, of course. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:13:16] For example, he heard a conversation that I was having with my adopted father. And I basically was telling him that, hey, I just want to let you know that my biological father reached out and reconnected. And I am going, I'm embarking on this journey. And then my son was like, huh?

[00:13:43] What did he, what did he, well, Grandpa Mark, that's your dad. I was like, he is my dad, father. But I had to explain to him. And he was just so baffled by the fact that he didn't understand. And he's like, so your real dad didn't love you? I said, I don't know about all that. But I think they're trying to explain to him in his six-year-old brain. He was just baffled because he has so much love from both of his parents, from me and his mother.

[00:14:11] And I think it was really hard for him to wrap that around of like the non-traditional, whatever that is, family. I don't know, me and his mother aren't together, but like the sense of like having both parents and involved in her life. We are, as a lot of parents who were there, support him, love. He has a lot of family, we're to take care. And me not having that for years and then finding that and then having the conversation with him.

[00:14:40] It was extremely hard for him to wrap his head around and just moving and not living in the same place or moving from many different states and moving around so much because he's been here his whole life and has a little bit more of a routine. So it was very interesting trying to describe that to him and watching his response. So how do you think you did with that stuff as a kid?

[00:15:10] How? I thought it was normal as a kid. Do you mean for myself or for me looking at him? Yeah, for you, for yourself, right? So let me ask you a question. Let me make it a bit more specific, right? So do you remember what age you were when your adoptive parents told you that you were adopted? So our situation is we had the understanding of it when we were around five or six.

[00:15:41] Six, maybe, years old. And it was just a single mother at first until she got married. So I knew that even when she married him that he was adopting us. So I knew that. Do you remember how old? Yeah, I do. Do you remember how old you were when she told you? Yes. How old were you? We were around, I want to say five.

[00:16:07] She told us and we were actually aware of that she wasn't our mom, mom. But also we had seen this woman and recognized her birth as her mom. So there was some type of experience in our life and involvement in our life, in a sense, from our biological mother. So it was normal? You just like it was not normal was what? Well, I thought, why doesn't she love us? Why isn't our mom with us?

[00:16:36] Why are we with you? I remember me and my brother asking those questions like she didn't want us or what happened. Like not being able to actually voice that exactly, but having that feelings and trying our best to express that to our adopted mom. And then we didn't know our dad at all. So like there was no, like I thought my uncles were my father for like the first, we met our adopted father when we were like seven or eight.

[00:17:01] So having the experience that, oh my God, I have so many dads and I had like six uncles who we would hang out with stuff and cousins. And I just thought that all of them were our dads because we didn't have that. And then having that realization, like, wait, who is our dad? Where is he? And there was never really any like much information on him or they didn't have much to share with us at the time. So, yeah, I just thought that was like normal for a while. So, yeah.

[00:17:30] So you, your son's confused and so are you. Yeah. Again, confused for, because I, exactly, because I was confused at that age. So it makes sense that he's confused, but confused and because of the difference in how our experiences, you know, which is. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's a slightly different sort of confusion. Yeah. Okay. So it's about the different circumstances as well as the story. Okay. Yeah. Correct. Yeah.

[00:18:01] Fast forward. Do you remember your kind of big or biggest, should we say, coming out of the fog moment? I do. I actually just revisited that with my inner power like childhood connection therapist that I work with. She's my good friend. And yeah, I just revisited a couple of those moments that I've had. And yeah, I do. Yeah. Would you mind sharing one of them? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember.

[00:18:32] I remember. And this is where we, I drew this picture and then, okay. So I'm just going to tell you a precursor before I go into this. And there was, I, we were revisiting this moment. And she told me with her left hand, like draw an experience of this age group that you remember something that just comes up to mind. Like ask yourself the question on your right hand, on your like adult parenting hand. And now with your left hand on your creativity hand, this is your child. Like think about it. Give yourself love experience. And like, what do you remember at these experience from this age?

[00:19:01] And I remember we were around four or five. Um, and, um, I remember the door being opened and our people coming into the house, having the realization. I didn't put it together until this last weekend really, because I asked one of my uncles, but like a familiar face coming in and taking us out of this house where we was just Aaron and I for days.

[00:19:28] And, um, I had the realization at that time that we were being rescued, which is crazy at the time to have that kind of understanding because our biological mother had left us, um, there. Um, and I remember my grandmother, my uncle coming and rescuing us from this place and just taking us out of this situation. And I remember leaving that place and never going back.

[00:19:58] And drawing that picture was like, Whoa, what is this? And then asking my uncle, and he's like, that was me. My uncle Terry was like, yeah, that was me and your grandma and, um, Cynthia, who is my adopted mom. Um, we took you out of there. Um, you, and he told us that story. And that was the first realization. I'm like, that's, I thought we were being rescued and we never went back to that place, which was our house at the time. Um, so I found that to be like very, very interesting and kind of profound.

[00:20:27] At a young age. Yeah. And then revisiting it as adult was like extremely interesting. And you said, sorry, did you say you were four or five? Four? Yeah. Four. Which is why I couldn't, I'd see things in pictures and stuff, but like description was not there. So revisiting and seeing, I know there was the person and this person and they took us and we are going here and the house, there was stuff all over the house and the door was open,

[00:20:57] but I don't remember faces like specifically who it was or when or where, I mean, I know where, but not what time and all those things, but then, you know, revisiting those and having that. And then I went to go help my grandmother this weekend, which is why I was gone. And my uncle was there helping her with some, like some work around the house and just talking to him about it. And he's like, yeah, Adrian, that was me. And then I was like, wait, really? I just had this experience in my, it was like two weeks ago and that was, he was like, yeah. And then he told me more detail about the story and what happened.

[00:21:26] I was like, and then I look back at the picture that I drew and I was like, yo, that's insane. That's so crazy how I have this non-descriptive, but understanding broad picture of what happened and then revisiting that and talking. And then that being confirmed, I just found that extremely very, very intriguing to me. Intriguing. And when you were working with the therapist on this, how was your reaction?

[00:21:53] How did you, how did you feel when that came up for you? At first I was a little bit like, whoa, I thought it was a little weird and very, very like, okay, what I was trying to, I didn't know how to process those feelings, but then, excuse me, how we ended that and came back is having, is the outlook and like changing your, not changing,

[00:22:22] but like adding your perspective and perception on as an adult. I felt really warm and very, very happy about the ending results of that. Cause what she did, which is very, very cool and interesting is to implant, not implant, but give you a different solution of ending of that story. So having your adult self come in and help rescue and be there for your younger self and asking those, could we ask those questions and being there and saying, Hey, I got you. I'm here.

[00:22:51] You're listened to, I support you. And you don't ever have to go through that again. And for me, I found that super comforting. Yeah. So at first I was like, oh, okay. Wow. And I was like, I didn't know. I didn't know how to process that feeling, but when we ended and talked about it and revisit that and that same thing and then answer with our right hand and then respond with our left and then answer and imagine and picture that image of you as an adult going to, because you're talking to your inner childhood self, basically that I see, you know, with

[00:23:20] my, with my son, it felt very comforting. Yeah. Honestly. So I just want to throw in this because I, I saw something that speaks to this, this morning actually. So I guess there's been on the podcast and the doctor who's been on the podcast, Liz DeBetter, she runs courses.

[00:23:48] She's a, she's a writing, a professor of writing. I don't, I don't know if she's a professor, but she's got a doctorate, Dr. Liz DeBetter. And she runs these, she runs a writing courses and it's called migrating to wholeness. Migrating to wholeness. And she, I got an email from her this morning. I'm on her email list and other pops.

[00:24:15] And I looked at some of the stuff that she's doing, but her, one of, one of her parts of her model that she has, that she has developed and then teaches through this writing, migrating to wholeness. It, it talked about identity and it talks about the, the, the big self caring for the little self. Yes. And that's what you've expressed to me.

[00:24:45] That, and it was, honestly, it was like, I mean, I get excited about it. Cause like, I, I just thought that. Please don't. It's like, please do, please do get excited about it. I got really excited. And the fact that you said that, cause I was like, yeah, it was very, very interesting to revisit and have that be the solution and, and, and overall encompassing fact of how it ended. And I found it super amazing that your older self being there to protect your inner self,

[00:25:12] your younger self, when you at those times may have felt that that was, no one was there for you. And then revisiting because it's you, not someone else, which is another thing that you deal with too, is like that, but it's you who's doing the act for yourself and being able to like separate the two, but also bring them together. Ah, man. It was very, very, very, very, it was very comforting for me. And I found it extremely intriguing and interesting. I was like, Whoa, I didn't know that was a possible thing.

[00:25:43] Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I'm going to give the guy another name check here. Right. But we do this all, I mentioned this guy all the time. Right. And, um, so the guy's called Dick Schwartz, Richard Schwartz. Uh, his book is called No Bad Parts. And the, the, the, the, the parts are, um, the, the parts coincide with relate to are

[00:26:12] us at different stages. Right. So there's, there's the little, there's the four year old Adrian. Yep. Yeah. There's a four year old Adrian who is disorientated about leaving, leaving the home. Right. Um, and then there might be, there might be another guy and another part of Adrian. Right.

[00:26:38] So that might be the first time a girl broke up with you, or it might be the first time, I don't know, you know, like fill in, fill in blanks. Right. So yeah, no, it's true. Um, you know, like when you, uh, so for little Simon, okay. Like, let me talk about maybe someone instead of pontificating on you. Right. So there's, um, there's, there's little Simon who is 10 years old and he has lost his,

[00:27:05] what we call rucksack, what you call backpack in, in the States. He's lost his backpack. Uh, the other kid, another kid on the bus is taking the Mickey out of him. Right. For having lost his backpack. Yeah. And little Simon just hits the guy. Right. I know that feeling. Okay. So that's, that's, that's a little angry Simon.

[00:27:31] And then I can think of other, I can think of little Simon being, uh, um, bullied or dropped from the rugby. Cause clearly we didn't play American football. That's very similar though. Drop from the rugby team. Right. At 13, I can remember the, I can remember my eyes prickling with tears at being dropped

[00:27:57] from the team and me turning away from the rest of the people so that they, cause you, it's not cool to cry when you're a 13 year old kid. Right. Yeah. No. Yeah. So there's all these different parts. There's all these different parts. Yeah. And that is the uppercase ass self Simon.

[00:28:23] So that's big Simon, big Adrian, big anybody. Right. It's the, it's the essence of who we are. It's the, it's the internal nurturer. I've never said that word before. But I love that word. That, that person, that internal, you know, that, that person, that being, that essence, that, that's who we are. Right. Yeah. All the trauma is in the parts. Yeah.

[00:28:53] There's no trauma in the nurturing uppercase S. Correct. Simon, right. And that's who we are. So there's, you know, little, little Simon, slightly bigger Simon, middle-sized Simon, grown up Simon. There's all those different Simons. And then there's uppercase S. Simon.

[00:29:19] And uppercase S. Simon is like, he's like Teflon, right? There's no, no trauma has stuck to his palm. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, you hit on, on that, on everything that you said, you hit on so many points. And so many points that I have found to be super relevant to now.

[00:29:45] And actually, when you make a, one thing specific that you said is like the trauma, there is no trauma near as adult, but there's trauma here. And trauma and what I've learned specifically is like, right? Like the trauma, like experiencing trauma is that is because at that time as a child, as an adolescent is experiencing that or being abandoned meant or all those feelings come from a place of you, your survival reliant on someone else to be able to help you.

[00:30:15] As a kid, you, you, as a, as a, as a, as a child is you experienced those trauma and those, um, abandonment things that you dealt with when I, I had dealt with at a younger age, because at that time is you're reliant on support to live, to survive in a sense. And so it shifts as an adult, like there are things that you can have as traumatic experience, of course, and things like that.

[00:30:41] But the feeling meant of the actual root of that abandonment specifically is not felt because you aren't dependent on someone else for survival in a sense. And going back to what you said earlier. Can I jump in? Can I jump in? No, you go for it. I'm supposed to be interviewing you. So you go for it. No, no, no. I shouldn't be talking. Please ask. Um, and going back to what you said, when I said earlier, when you're like,

[00:31:10] I'm still feeling these things as, as I'm, as I'm going through specifically just saying what you were just saying is like, that is why that is why it's because I'm like going through things and learning things and still growing. So it could feel like a little bit of annoyance that we talked about earlier is because I thought that I was done, but like, it's not, it's still changing because I'm, I'm seeing things now as an adult self that I didn't realize maybe at my younger self or revisiting things or having an experience.

[00:31:39] I'm like, I'm sifting through this. I don't know necessarily why I'm feeling this way or what's happening, but okay. I understand now, or I'm having the realization that I'm still growing and there are things that I'm working on. So sorry, that was very long winded Simon. I didn't mean to take over fully, but let me, let me try and let me try and sum up my thoughts on this.

[00:32:05] First off, there is still trauma in Simon. Oh yeah. But I'm, I'm not Simon. I'm not Simon. You're not Simon. So I'm going to try this out with you, right? I want to try, try, try this out with you. Okay.

[00:32:32] So you've, you've heard this phrase where we're not human beings having a spiritual experience. We're one, we're one spiritual being having 7 billion, 7 billion human, 100 billion experiences. Yeah. I've heard that. So, so if, if, if we are all one spiritual being, okay, I'm not Simon.

[00:33:04] I'm the spiritual being. You are. And the, the, the initials are the same. I've just spotted this spiritual being. And Simon. Isn't that cool? So there's still additional being. Okay. Well, let me put it a different way. Right. So let's just playing around here. Right.

[00:33:33] I'd be interested to hear what you're doing. So there's trauma still in my body. Right. There's trauma still in your body because you're, you know, a hundred percent, but yeah, but it's, it's coming out of your body. Yeah. It's, it's leaving in ways, right. It's coming out. It's coming out. And you're waving it goodbye. Right. But it's a never ending goodbye. Every day.

[00:34:03] Every, every day. And sometimes you feel that that is really boring. Yeah. And frustrating. And sometimes you think, what? You mean life gets better? So that's your mixed feelings. Right. That's your mixed feelings. Yeah. I want to try. Are you in my brain? I want to try. I want to try. Sorry. I said, are you in my brain right now? Well, all of that. We're both in each other's brain.

[00:34:33] Well, we're, there's only. There's only one unified brain. Yeah. Yeah. We're all, we're all, we're all segments of the same orange. See, I feel like as you have this thought, I feel like we are all segments of the same orange. But a lot of the time we don't have that realization that we're actually one until we have those

[00:35:00] more shared or more broader understanding experiences that unify us. That's why we're all separated in these different fragments. You're Simon, Ben, I'm Adrian Burks, my brothers, Aaron, this and that, you're whoever is because we all are made to be that we're individual, individualized as much as we can. But realistically is the unification of it all is when we all go like this. In a sense, it's that water droplet that we leave in our bodies.

[00:35:28] But when we leave that and we're able to express, we're into the ocean as one bigger hole. In a sense. Couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. Feel free to share more metaphors. I love that. I am a metaphor junkie. I'm a metaphor junkie, but it's a good habit, right? I agree. Simon, Ben, I couldn't agree with you more, sir.

[00:35:56] So give us some more metaphors. I'll come up with some of them as we engage and talk more. There'll be a lot more. Well, I've got to call my mum in about 10 minutes. Yeah. So I want to, because you're a film, you're a director, you're an actor, director and producer. I want to try this. I want to try this one on with you.

[00:36:25] So have you seen the film with Michael Fassbender as Steve Jobs? I have. Okay. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the story. Here's the metaphor. Here's the analogy. It's more of an analogy than a metaphor, right? So Michael Fassbender is at home. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:54] And he's cool. Everything's going hunky-dory for him in his life. He's just starting to find his niche. He's got great roles. He's happy with his work. Life is looking good. Family life is great. Yeah. Okay. So Michael Fassbender is the uppercase S self. Yeah. Right? Okay. Yeah.

[00:37:20] But he's big Simon or big Adrian or big Mike. Yeah. Right? He's the uppercase S self. He is the one. Oh, I love this. He's the orange. He's the orange of the S altman. He's the orange segment, right? He's like that. Then he gets a call from his agent. Agent. Agent said, hey, Michael, they're making this great,

[00:37:49] they're making this film about Steve Jobs. And you're up for it. Okay. You're up for it. And Michael Fassbender said, I love my iPhone. I love my iPhone. I've had one since iPhone version one. I have an iMac. I have an iPad. I'm an Apple junkie. I just love Apple. I love Steve Jobs. I want this role. I've got to play this role.

[00:38:18] So he immerses himself. He immerses himself in the life of Steve Jobs. Of Steve Jobs. And he discovers. That's a good one. He discovers that Steve Jobs was adopted. And he discovers what a difficult person Steve Jobs was. Steve Jobs was. To work with.

[00:38:47] He finds out all about his perfectionism. He finds out all about his desire to control stuff. He finds out about all the wars that he's fighting with. All the music people that say that what's it isn't going to work. You know, the iPad. What's it? The life of Steve Jobs. That's not going to work. Right. And he immerses himself on it.

[00:39:10] And then he becomes the character to get the job of Jobs. And before long. He's so immersed in the method acting of this. He has all the neuroses. The insecurities. The control freak. The control freak. Oh, yeah. He has the whole thing. Because.

[00:39:42] And he's. He comes home from. He comes home from work one night. You know, he's been in the trailer all day. And he starts going on about all the problems that he's having. And his wife says. You don't have those problems. All those hang-ups. All those hang-ups. That stuff that you've got going on with Samsung. And all the music bosses.

[00:40:10] And all the computer programmers that work for you. That won't do what you're talking about. You don't have any of those problems. And Steve Jobs says. Yeah, I have. I have. I've got this ongoing legal dispute. I've got all these staff up in arms. I've got the union giving all this stuff. I like. She says. That is what. No, that's not your problem, Steve. Your problem. Is that you've forgotten who you are. Yeah.

[00:40:40] We have forgotten. That is amazing. Very, very, very profound. I figured this is where. In the way that you were going. I'm going. And. Continue. I'm sorry. I. I. No, no. That's it. That's it. Right. So we just have to. All we need to do is wake up to who we are. There we are. Exactly. How do we do that song? Well, I don't know. Listen to podcasts like this. Right. And a full disclosure.

[00:41:08] This idea comes from my biggest teacher at the moment, a guy called Rupert Spira. But his story is about John Smith, an actor playing the role of King Lear. Wow. At war with the French, having problems with his kids.

[00:41:37] And it's the same. It's the same. I've just taken Rupert Spira's analogy. I've made it into. Yeah. Related one. But we've forgotten who we are. We've forgotten that we. We can't help it. I mean, I think you can. But I mean, at the time when you're feeling that. Going through, you know, whatever the multitude of issues that adoptees go through. Is.

[00:42:03] That is I feel like one of the can be one of the most challenging things is to know who you are to figure out. This isn't. You're a problem or this isn't. You. You just forgotten who you actually are. Through whatever circumstances that may have happened. And that's that read the book. No bad parts. I'm going to have to. And.

[00:42:34] And Richard Schwartz's genius on this. It's it's a. Yeah. Richard. Richard Schwartz's genius is. Is he characterizes. Is the uppercase ourself. Right. So he describes. What it's like. When we are being who we are. Who. Right. It's got the seven. Seven C's. Right. The seven C's. I won't be able to remember them all. But. Calm. Confident.

[00:43:04] Connected. Is the big one. Yeah. Forget. Actually. Forget about all of the other six. Connected. Connected. We are in. We're. We're. We're. We're two segments of the same orange. You and me. Right. We're connected to one another. We feel connected.

[00:43:33] We talk to. For. For. For. Adopted. That was. That was my question. That I was going to ask you. Simon. I was like. Did you. Did you. I mean. When is the. When is the first. And maybe it happened sooner. But when did you feel. More sense of connection. Because there was a long time. That I just felt disconnected from. I mean. I'm a twin. I have a twin. So I always felt like I had that. And there was that connection. But I felt disconnected from a lot of. Other things. And disjointed.

[00:44:02] And do we want to feel like I was like. I'm not. Actually not. I'm like. You know. I'm more connected than I thought. Did you feel or have that realization. Or did you feel disconnected. For a long time. I felt connected. I felt connected. And. Everybody. I. I didn't know that I was a. A segment of an orange. You know what I mean. Mm-hmm. Didn't know that. That didn't come to later in my life. Like you said. It didn't come to us until later. Right. Later. But I. I felt. I felt connected. To.

[00:44:31] To my. To my parents. I. My. Dad gave me a bit of hard time. About certain things. So. To give you one example. Right. He. He would. I've. I've got slightly. Stooped. I'm slightly stooped. I don't. Stand up straight. Like. I'm in the arm. And. Yeah. He used to. Give me a hard time for that.

[00:45:04] Attire. My posture. Right. But most of the time. I felt connected. To. To my back. So. The way. The way. I. Sum this up. Is. There is no. One. Primal wound. Right. It. It's a scale. Yeah. It's a scale. Some. People. I. I. Sorry. Listeners. If you heard this before. Um. I. I feel like.

[00:45:33] Mine was a paper cut. Mm. Got you. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I. I.

[00:46:03] I. So. Yeah. I. scale of yeah that's a scale um and i also feel that the the trauma that we feel from that we this there's trauma in our households as well so if we are raised by very unemotionally intelligent

[00:46:34] parents um who are saviors um who was you know who have been adopted us to build you know to make that make make that make their friends respect them at church on a sunday because they've done this you know all that sort of stuff i i think i think it's impossible to separate relinquishment trauma with the trauma of drawing up in a in in a in a household where you are an ornament

[00:47:04] should we say it isn't the trauma is trauma i mean i i i feel like that there are different classifications of trauma but for me in a sense trauma is trauma i feel like what aaron and i went through we went through there was some things that happened to us that i was didn't fully understand later that i wasn't aware of and it all came to picture but it understands that there was trauma there to made me which was a lot of the cause of why i navigated certain things the way

[00:47:29] that i did and then our first like situation of living with like someone else besides our adopted mom our first foster mom there was some extremely traumatic experiences that we had with her which is why we were removed from there and those things are both trauma whether you look at it no matter which way you look at it yeah uh-huh i and like you said the scale is 100 percent like i

[00:47:53] you know mine was a little bit deeper and some things that happened to us uh even from my first foster mom and and it's layers let me yes it's layers right so let me switch analysis uh uh analogies right so it's like a layer cake it's like a layer cake so um in terms of the the relinquishment trauma

[00:48:18] that has different people have different thicknesses yeah trauma and then you've got other you've got other trauma as well so the trauma that went on in the in this uh short-term foster right yeah and then you've got trauma that goes on for other stuff and then and like if you're a transracial adoptee if you've got international adoptee if you got you know like if you grew up if you know your parents

[00:48:44] if you don't know your parents yeah all this different compound it's all it's all different layers yeah uh-huh but it's all one cake exactly that's exactly what i'm saying it's all one cake there are different layers compounding uh 100 and the good agree with you more and the good news is that we're not the cake we're the cake stand we're the one oh i love that that is a good

[00:49:08] another good one another one another one right um so we are the cake stand we're the cake stand right so we are not we are bigger than our trauma we're not trauma right okay agreed so i do need to call my mom so i want you to share i told people at the start of the interview and then

[00:49:31] i haven't given you enough chance to talk about this so tell me about the film that you're making oh yes um i am making a documentary called finding home and really answering is we've always had a home in a sense no matter where we're looking at either it's the exploration of finding it or we've had it this whole time but it's a documentary on connecting with not just your

[00:50:01] with your biological roots in a sense and that could be look away in many different ways it could be finding your biological parents which there is someone in the documentary that we're covering who has never met his parents uh has no connection with them at all um part of it or traveling me and my brother and i who haven't met our father are taking a road trip to go meet him and ask him questions so finding him and getting to the point of like who are you can you tell us your story

[00:50:30] what happened and sharing an experience of adoptees on a plethora scale it's covering the whole diaspora of what it means to be adopted for them um and we pose questions as the people who didn't birth you is there a connection yes no why or why not and exploring those questions and hopefully raising more

[00:50:55] but that's what the documentary is it's it's it's interviewing adoptees to connect with their biological roots on whatever scale that means to them yeah so i'm going to put some links in the show notes right because you're doing some crowdfunding on this and um yes so i would encourage people just to check out the i always not i sometimes forget to say this but check out the show notes definitely on

[00:51:24] this yes uh on this occasion and do what if you like the sound of what adrian is doing then help him share this on socials or whatever whatever you whatever you you don't need to when nobody's begging you for money here right just yeah do do what do what you feel what do what feels right to you if you want

[00:51:48] 100 support this um 100 and we go live next week from our crowdfunding campaign and we also have our social media withdrawal posts even you don't have to that we're not begging for money just if give it a look if it connects or not um i know it connects to me and a lot of people that i'm talking to and kind of the sponsorship of adoption agencies and stuff that we are talking to so yeah if there's any connection and you feel free just to want to watch and view amazing i would love that yeah okay

[00:52:18] so links in the show notes as always and uh is there anything else that you'd like to share any maybe a metaphor that's popped up for you damn simon don't do this i'm putting him on the spot a metaphor that means to me honestly uh this game of life it feels like a sport

[00:52:44] to me i often have felt like the football that was passed around from thing to thing which is what makes sense for like why i was so intrigued by it of going from place to place and playing both sides of the ball trying to figure out and come up right with one whole goal is to win regardless of you think of it or not your pass around from place this is what i felt like talking to pass around from person to person to thing to thing until finding that home but

[00:53:13] ultimately the whole goal for all of us is to win and that could look like whatever it wants for you it doesn't necessarily have to get the w on the game but it could be the friendships and relationships that you build on the team it's a win for me and that's kind of how i feel does i feel like my game of the sport my life of the sport yeah does big does big adrian feel at home

[00:53:41] feel at home you said yeah big adrian feels at home i'm going to go even further than that right i think big adrian is what are you going to say is home

[00:54:00] big adrian is home when you put it that way big adrian is home yeah on a lot of different ways i'm home and i'm home for other people

[00:54:21] yeah which makes me feel at home yeah yeah we're home together uh-huh thank you simon guys simon is a kind of you guys don't realize this but maybe you do but not only is simon very powerful in the way he speaks and his experiences but he's also a little bit of a guru if you didn't understand that i feel like you need i'll tell you what you need what you need to do is if you know you need to tell

[00:54:50] everybody right because yeah well i'm a i'm a i'm an a what do we call it and i'm an acquired taste acquired taste yeah no part of me big one of the biggest things i uh have found more peace with is is the numbers right yeah is yeah is the is the numbers the the

[00:55:18] and the fact that it's it's all about quality not quantity listen i can't do this any other way than i feel is best for it but it's i agree this this is a minority right this is minority yeah this is not this is not um like the big uh big story podcasts out there this is this is my yeah it's a minority sport

[00:55:46] yeah my spot with limited appeal but we've got to do what feels right for us and what you're doing feels right for you yeah and to end on a slightly different note you listen as you do need to check out um the show notes and check out what adrian's doing and check out a picture of adrian and see if you too think that he looks like rio ferdinand

[00:56:14] he told me this last uh a couple weeks ago when we talked guys and yeah and i was like oh you know i looked at the picture i was like damn that was good i was like damn that was a good one i kind of do good on you by the way simon i'm gonna i'm gonna put you in uh a part of my documentary as well and we'll we'll talk as we get through but um you're very much a part of this as well if you don't mind

[00:56:41] i i'm up for it no question okay cool okay okay cool thanks listeners thanks adrian thank you thank you too simon you you