The Gift Of Trauma With Tim Perdion

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Thriving Adoptees podcast. I'm delighted to be joined by Tim Perdion. Great to talk to you again, Tim, looking forward to our conversation today. Thank you Simon, it's a pleasure, pleasure to be here.

[00:00:17] So, last time we spoke, since last time we spoke, Tim was telling me that he's been listening to some of the other episodes of the podcast back to back, so being a real deep dive into that.

[00:00:37] And this stuff is deep, right? It is deep and it is the road less travelled, I think. So the question, as you spotted that I always ask, I'll start with, well, I start with it slightly

[00:01:01] differently sometimes these days. To what extent does this word healing resonate with you, Tim? Well, I think it's a great place to start and healing to me is a journey. And I would say that for me the disruption that started a process of desiring to get healing was

[00:01:33] disruption related to anger. And so therefore that was some signs that there was distress and there was a need for healing. And so that started for me about 10 years ago. And so 10 years into

[00:01:52] the journey it is a daily process, continuing to pursue healing to really continue to look within and understand what are all those spots, those parts so to speak within me that we're holding on to anger. Some of it's in the subconscious, some of it's below the surface of

[00:02:14] that consciousness and yet very clear at times when reactions to things were bigger than maybe the events required, it was okay there's more there. And so healing is a journey and it's a journey to

[00:02:32] understand self but also to understand the history or the circumstances of my childhood and even as I've met both biological parents to understand their stories. It's a really big puzzle so to speak

[00:02:52] and putting the pieces together starts to help with all the questions. So for me healing is a journey of understanding but then also acceptance of all the different things that come up and minimizing resistance to things that can't be changed. Wow, yeah you gave me a lot to

[00:03:18] to dive into that. Which bit, so you covered a whole load of different stuff. Why don't I ask you a slightly different question? What particular healing moments come to mind? Yeah. Because we've done macro so let's go micro. Yeah, yeah so if the first signs that I had

[00:03:47] the awareness that I needed healing were related to anger it was explosive anger directed at people that weren't really the people that hurt me and so I started to hurt people that were close to me

[00:04:06] and I just knew that that wasn't okay so I asked for help and I ended up going to get some help at a trauma and rehabilitation addiction center and so for me healing from anger outburst of anger

[00:04:29] and so under the surface was the anger and all the different ways I was trying to cope were maladaptive and they weren't working so the starting point for me was recognition that there was

[00:04:43] something that needed to be done to address this under the surface anger that started to kind of spill out. Yeah, so it's that is that what you've heard this term coming out of the fog is

[00:05:00] what is that your moment of coming out of the fog you think? Well, I would say that this was even prior to me digging into the impact of my adoption so I went to in 2019 at 50 years old I went to

[00:05:20] a place to dig into trauma to dig into addiction to dig into failed relationships to dig into all the symptoms that later when I came out of that place I came into I heard about the book The Primal Womb and so in 2020 when I read that book

[00:05:45] I had already dug into trauma but now I saw it from the lens through the lens of oh my adoption and the impact of that was really the root cause so to speak and so I started to dig

[00:06:03] into that and that's when I first heard the term fog in coming out of fear obligation and guilt and I started to realize that's really what had ruled my life was being in thick fog. Yeah,

[00:06:20] it's interesting because I think there's two ways that people adopt TC or everybody sees this fog thing right so I there's the way that you've said right fear obligation and and guilt and then

[00:06:37] there's another way that we sometimes express it and I think this is probably closer to the way that I see it is when we become aware of the relinquishment trauma so when the fear sorry when the subconscious relinquishment trauma becomes conscious so it's that moment

[00:07:09] of seeing the cause and that those two feels different to me coming out of fear obligation and guilt and becoming aware of the trauma but I'm wondering do you see those two things differently? Well I'm glad you brought that up because the impact of the relinquishment

[00:07:38] becoming from the subconscious to conscious I think was really profound for me and it's related to the anger so what happened I'll just give you an example I'm at work and I'm on a

[00:07:58] project and one of the leaders of the company had a really strong opinion about how we should do something in the project and so it wasn't a matter of we had a difference of opinion on the

[00:08:11] outcome we were clear on the outcome but the way he thought we should approach it was different than mine and so he said I think A and I was interested in saying hey but what about B and C

[00:08:23] and there was a moment where he kind of said my way or the highway and it was well if you don't want to do A then I'll find somebody else and I found like that was the the finger that

[00:08:39] poked the wound of I don't matter and when he did that I just felt a intense rush of energy come over me and it was rage and you know the fight flight or freeze I froze because I knew that if

[00:08:58] anything came out of my mouth it was not going to be good for the situation for my career all that so I froze fast forward I'm on a vacation a couple weeks after that so that one got my attention and

[00:09:12] I'm on a vacation and I have an incident where I'm attending to my daughter who bumped her nose in the pool she's about 10 you know there's a cut I'm trying to help her first my wife comes up and she

[00:09:29] expresses some concern and my daughter's reaction is uh mirrored and so she's getting all worried and then her sister my my ex-wife's sister came about and tried to attend to my daughter and her

[00:09:41] expression was even more expressive so my sit my daughter gets really upset because she sees the reaction and I'm trying to diffuse this and I erupted and I basically erupted on my my my my

[00:09:56] sister-in-law and again with some reflection I said okay this is another instance where I had the hand the situation handled and two people looked like I didn't even exist and I felt invisible

[00:10:10] and again it was that I don't matter and this was a repetitive theme around that time and both times anger came up one time I froze another time I let it out and within a week I was in a in a in a

[00:10:24] facility because I I had to do something so that was where those subconscious wounds became conscious for me and they came out in really destructive ways yeah yeah I have I can really definitely relate to to to those and and that you know that I don't

[00:10:47] matter thing yeah I've never heard it expressed quite like that um yeah but I think it's a really I think it's another great summation right yeah so I can tell you I didn't know this at the time

[00:11:06] but this is with reflection this is with work this is with really understanding the fog understanding those repressed emotions understanding anger is here to teach us something and as you know

[00:11:19] when I when I go to the rehab place they give us this this this feelings wheel and you know anger's this the the secondary emotion and beneath that is betrayal and resentment and disrespect and violation and fury and skepticism and numbness and withdrawn and if you're all those

[00:11:38] other things and so I started to learn my life was built on trying to repress all of those emotions related to that relinquishment that were in the subconscious yeah so you're saying you spotted

[00:11:59] the anger was a teacher but it didn't feel like that at the time right right right yeah I felt like a weapon I heard something I mentioned this on every podcast that recorded yesterday I heard

[00:12:16] the name of a Gabo Marte program a couple of months ago called The Wisdom of Trauma yep and to me the the wisdom of trauma and anger as a teacher seem to be kind of on the same vibe

[00:12:32] yep and it's actually rather than pushing our anger away saying this is an anger isn't something that is destructive the anger becomes constructive yeah well stay with the theme of

[00:12:54] healing and you know we have to feel our feelings in order to heal from them you know and so there's no way to healing without going through understanding what those emotions particularly

[00:13:11] anger are are here to teach us and I know that I grew up where people in my house were uncomfortable with emotion expression of emotion and so we didn't have a lot of conflict unless there were

[00:13:31] blow-ups but it I was taught that it wasn't okay to be angry so I had to take whatever emotions I had and stuff them down and stuff them down and it's like a pressure cooker they don't go anywhere

[00:13:46] other than inside and they're gonna come out at some point and I'm sure you've heard hurt people hurt people and those kinds of things well those cliche sayings become cliches because

[00:13:58] they're true and so the only thing that could happen at some point in my life was all the stuff that had been stuffed out it was like well it's just a matter of time when that's

[00:14:07] coming out so how would you describe your relationship with trauma and changes in that relation and the changes in that relationship since then I've had to be friend it so become

[00:14:29] comfortable with it and to accept it and to realize that it's there and to be more aware of what are those types of triggers that might trigger it but as also having done a lot of work it's

[00:14:51] release like trying to release it through EMDR work or through you know talk therapy is okay but I've done a lot of other types of things and then also learning skills around breathing, meditation,

[00:15:05] prayer different ways of reflecting the impact of exercise so part of it is to say here somatically are some things I can do to help release more of that out of the body because again the body keeps the score and recognizing just how

[00:15:26] that body-mind connection and the way trauma gets stored in the body so it's really having that understanding and then saying hey what are the things I can do to ensure I continue

[00:15:37] to release that become more aware of what those triggers are and you know it's uh how do you have that pause button so that I become more response oriented versus reactive but it's kind of uh

[00:15:57] it's a fairly new thing or fairly rare thing for me to hear somebody say befriending our trauma yeah well maybe that just means I had to have a relationship with it versus being angry again that it was there because it's part of it is um learning that

[00:16:22] you can't change the past can understand it can change the future but if I don't make friends with my past in some way of accepting it well I'm and I have a long history

[00:16:37] of repeating the past so part of it was to say let's honor it let's understand it let's release what we can and then it's to begin the process of repairing the relationship I had with myself

[00:16:52] because so much of my life was self-sabotage or self-hatred self-loathing and using drugs alcohol and other means of coping with that and that didn't work so part of it is to say you know I

[00:17:08] have a past these are things that happened and so acceptance and then really forgiveness and forgiveness of self and others who were part of my life so that's been a process so yeah

[00:17:27] if that's making friends with it not to say that I love it but it's there to be dealt with yeah so you've used the term self-sabotage then right yeah self-sabotage but you've you talked about understanding self a little bit earlier

[00:17:49] um yeah are you meaning the same self or is that different self well there are multiple selves right I think you know having done some parts work recognizing that there are um various parts inside like my one therapist kind of

[00:18:12] they said imagine a boardroom and now invite all the different parts uh and so there are multiple selves there might be a self from pre-birth there might be a self from birth subconscious

[00:18:23] parts of the self but there might be a self from three years old three years older eight years old or middle school age or high school or so there's lots of parts and each one of those parts

[00:18:34] for me has represented a time where something traumatic might have happened or a reenactment of something from the past might have happened again and left a mark right and so those parts had a purpose but mostly to survive and mostly to protect so recognizing and honoring that they

[00:19:00] their services were useful at a time but at my age now that three-year-old acting like a three-year-old doesn't serve me well so the way I've worked through that is to

[00:19:15] kind of try to integrate all of that so that I can be a person who is not separate like that with all those different alienated parts yeah that the book the the no bad parts book

[00:19:33] so part part's work is also known as IFS yep IFS listeners in case you didn't say anything um that book the title says it all I think no no bad no bad parts yeah and it keeps on coming up

[00:19:55] and again and again it seems to be like one of the that and um amdr and body keeps score and all they keep on coming up again again and again yeah and there's the this thing there's an incredible

[00:20:18] power there he also talks he talks about the uppercase as self as well though doesn't he dish was that kind of the higher self the higher self the true self the yeah the the

[00:20:41] when it comes to adoption trauma relinquishment trauma yeah and and the primal wound I think of this as kind of the as the unwoundable say so yeah yeah which is the way I've seen it described as a

[00:21:00] visual that says the true self is the ball in the middle and then all of the layers on the outside are those parts and then the ideal self is a ring around the outside of all that which is

[00:21:16] the perfect self the self you know and what happens is if my true self uh has all those parts I've always got that ideal self and if everything that I experienced is measured against that ideal self I'm going to be disappointed because that's perfection so it's interesting

[00:21:40] because you'd say that that highest self might be connected to the divine and whatever that means for for people could be the part that's connected with the universe or god or whatever I believe

[00:21:53] it's god but uh other people believe different things but the work that is to say who is that true self who what is my identity because my identity is what I was created to be

[00:22:10] before I came out and then was exposed to all the things that created those parts so if we are all born with a unique purpose and then we get born and in part of our birth was

[00:22:27] relinquishment well the circumstances were changed and now there's separation from our true unique self and we find a journey of trying to figure out how to get to that true and unique

[00:22:41] self but it's weaving in and out of all that stuff that happened and for me that's been a long journey of like just figuring out all of those different parts what were the different things

[00:22:57] and I'm sure you've kind of talked with people about like what was it like in utero because there's someone of your guests might have even said like there's never really a story where

[00:23:10] somebody who gave their child up for adoption had a very easy pregnancy right it was traumatic the circumstances the environment all those different things cause and again being like someone said it on one of the shows I listened to pickled in cortisol which I love because that

[00:23:32] gives a good visual of all of the cortisol released and I'm pickled in that well guess what I come out with I come out with you know a marinated being and is marinated in you know cortisol so

[00:23:46] lots of ways of looking at all of this but the journey to get to what that true self is is a navigation process through all of those different parts do you see that essential self as unwoundable or how do you say I was talking to fellow dot

[00:24:23] yeah about this so subject but it wasn't actually a lie for a for a podcast it was another conversation so I'm very interested in hearing your metaphor of that and your

[00:24:39] thoughts on that well I believe that we were so if my identity is not in what I do what I achieve who I please what I'm in control of all of that if my identity is defined by

[00:25:01] whoever created me and in my instance I would say that my identity was given to me by God that is my perfect self and so I would say what does he say what does the creator say about me

[00:25:15] about me to give me clarity on that authentic self well he doesn't say anything about wounds he doesn't put the spirit of fairness he doesn't wound us he says you are a child made in my image

[00:25:31] you are accepted you're adopted into my family of people and so you have a unique purpose you are empowered you are a new creation you are never alone you are being transformed and the transformation is whatever happened happened but now as you believe and start to really identify

[00:25:53] with who you are whose you are not just who you are I do believe that that purest form of our true self is unwoundable yeah the way I see it is it's a separation

[00:26:16] between who we are and how we feel so if if we if we talk about if we talk about trauma in in really simple terms to me it's a feeling rather than a thought

[00:26:40] right yeah there's some thoughts there's some thoughts around it too but it's more of a feeling so it like you you talked a lot about anger and I concur with that as a guy

[00:26:57] you know I would say that my trauma was often does often is manifested often in in anger and defensive anger in a way of you're saying you don't you're you somebody else is saying that I

[00:27:21] don't matter just on sorry about that ladies and gents we had amazon at the door and I didn't realize that my wife was already in home so she's dealing with him right so yeah like so like feet like I don't

[00:27:41] matter there's and I can see that now with I don't I don't matter uh and I can like in restaurants there's been you know I don't matter or what I don't what I want doesn't matter

[00:28:02] and I can see the flip side of that as well the the the feeling the the feeling of being looked after feeling of being um warmly welcomed yeah into a restaurant because I can see the the flipping so if we say that

[00:28:23] if I say that anger to me seems like a um sorry trauma seems is often for me comes in the in the shape of anger anger is a feeling I'm separating in my head right I'm separating

[00:28:43] a feeling from a being right so I'm separating how I feel from who I am and and that and hence a relationship with trauma right so a relationship is only possible if there are two things two people yeah so a relationship with trauma means a disidentification

[00:29:13] from it yeah and so I'm saying how I feel isn't who I am or the trauma that I feel isn't who I am I'm separating feelings from yeah feelings from identity so I'm doing this in a kind

[00:29:35] of a non-god thing in a non-god way well when you take the example of a restaurant and you go in and somehow you get the feeling that I don't matter because I'm not getting the attention or the service

[00:29:58] I expect what does that poke at within me that brings up a reaction it pokes in me something in a developmental stage of my life where somehow I didn't get a need met and so I formed this opinion

[00:30:19] that they should be treating me a particular way and when they don't then it triggers that feeling of I don't matter when in fact we don't know what the circumstances are or any of that

[00:30:33] so part of that is to be clear about like why do I feel that way and you know I read this book recently called unoffendable and just imagine a world where nothing bothered us well if we lived our lives

[00:30:52] perfectly then nothing would bother us but there's only one person who's represented themselves in the world who have lived a perfect life and that was Jesus he didn't sin and all that so

[00:31:04] those imprints of our childhoods are really deep and so therefore when you don't get the treatment that you think you deserve in a restaurant you feel a particular way you then might tell a story about

[00:31:21] who I am and that I don't matter versus saying you know hold that thought captive test it with the truth of who I know I am a divine child of the universe or whatever

[00:31:39] so I've got to like you said I gotta separate and realize the circumstances environments never have an impact on who I truly am my reaction could interpret those in a particular way but

[00:31:54] it's nuanced right it's very nuanced and it gets deep and I think my understanding also of complex trauma and of the different types of things related to childhood emotional neglect that have

[00:32:07] deep imprints on why we do what we do and all that are on top of those bigger unconscious wounds from relinquishment right because I grew up in a house where you know I felt controlled I felt

[00:32:22] like I had to live the life the way my adoptive parents wanted me to and I think they were living out of fear and so they wanted to control and so you just see this pattern that creates that

[00:32:37] conditioning and until you bring it to the consciousness like you know we talked about earlier until you bring this to the consciousness it's like oh now I can see why because now I see

[00:32:48] the wounding that they received in their own childhoods right and you just see these patterns that repeat themselves until somebody says wait a minute let's bring all this to the level of consciousness and start to say we have agency over how we handle this stuff and that's what

[00:33:05] breaking cycles is all about I love it I love it I love it Tim um the the adonci that was talking to last night uh Lena who was on the podcast last week a couple weeks ago um she was

[00:33:27] expressing how difficult she believes it is for us to see this uh unwoundable yeah that our our unwoundable essence or nature characteristic I don't know I don't know how I would what other words I could use what what could you um what's helped you see

[00:33:57] that unwoundable essence well I I think my understanding of like the impact of the different circumstances in my life would produce things like I'm not lovable sorry gentlemen ladies and gentlemen we had a bit of technical glitch there my for some reason my um internet is unstable

[00:34:36] so Tim sorry I missed that well I think my understanding of the unwoundable self was formed after I understood the wounds I received and so I might have grown up with belief systems about I'm not lovable um I don't matter I'm unworthy uh thank you for your patience

[00:35:10] ladies and gentlemen internet going playing way uh haywire today so um here we let's go it let's go for another let's go for another go at this Tim thank you for your patience too right um

[00:35:21] so um what has helped you see your unwoundability yeah first I had to identify the nature of the wounds and the beliefs associated with them so uh belief that I'm not lovable I'm not acceptable I'm unworthy I'm inadequate all those types of

[00:35:44] things that are lies so once I understood the beliefs that were running my life I had the opportunity to bring that to the level of consciousness and then change those belief systems and when your subconscious is running the show it takes a lot of effort habit creating

[00:36:06] new ways of thinking prayer meditation all kinds of new ways of creating these new neural pathways to install new belief systems and so because I do subscribe to the teachings of Jesus in the

[00:36:22] Bible and all that there's a lot of things in there there's a lot of words that he has for us that basically say you are lovable you are acceptable you are worthy so the truth is what I subscribe

[00:36:36] to and my truth is what I can read in what what what the Creator says about his children so it starts though with really becoming willing to actually shine the light on those negative

[00:36:53] belief systems okay I just want to take you back a step um to something that I think I've mentioned on a podcast recently but or might just be another conversation uh with a an

[00:37:06] adopting or recorded one right so I saw something from uh Gabel Mate and I'm not a big Gabel Mate fan right nothing it's just he talks he talks some sense to me but some of the stuff doesn't

[00:37:21] really land for me this did right um and it was something like um we say right we say I don't feel lovable or we say I feel that is not a feeling it's a belief right and for some reason

[00:37:48] that really landed for me because the essential feeling that we have as adoptees um is that we feel we feel unlovable and if we can see that that that that feeling of unlovability is actually

[00:38:08] a belief in a lot of in unlovability and it becomes something that's somehow easier to change you can't we can't we can see through a belief it's a lot easier for me I think

[00:38:24] it's a lot easier to see through a belief than it's to see through a feeling right yeah so I think that connects really well with like the residue of trauma in the body which is more of a feeling

[00:38:43] thing so like I know that like I spent a lot of time in my head which is where the thinking works and you've got to connect with the body and the heart which is where the source of emotion is so

[00:38:58] I again I think the belief system are thoughts that are just thought over and over and over and over and over again until they become a belief so there's this like mind body connection that

[00:39:09] needs to kind of be integrated so that my heart is open and one of the things for me that has been a process is getting in touch with those the heart and softening the heart

[00:39:27] right so if I have a hardened heart because I didn't trust people then I built a wall to protect myself and people and getting letting people close was scary so I have to soften that heart in order

[00:39:42] for me to actually receive love to receive good feelings good emotions that are coming from other people too you know and that's got to be built on trust and safety and that takes time I don't know

[00:39:59] there's a adoptee who hasn't had issues with trust right because so forgiveness is a way to get the forgiveness of self right we also tell the story that somehow and this I think Nancy

[00:40:19] Verrier kind of points out is like it's the bad baby syndrome somehow I don't know intellectually I know I wasn't responsible but somehow I feel like I was the bad baby that's why I was relinquished

[00:40:34] yeah something that I'm seeing at the moment is that the the memory is a feeling not a thought so we think of our memory as something based in thought but this is pre-thought

[00:40:52] it's yeah it's pretty it's pretty verbal anyway many thoughts are going on but they've not got they've they've not got any language development till after three years old I think you know in

[00:41:04] terms of actually having the ability of retaining those kinds of thoughts so yeah I think you're you're in that it's that pre-verbal subconscious emotion driven world some people say that pre-verbal and subconscious are the same thing

[00:41:27] the reason it's subconscious is because we don't have words for it yeah and we're a few neuro anatomist and neuroscientist scientists on there on their show and they'll say that subconscious well you know traditionally when I think of subconscious it means it's like I used to

[00:41:49] think of it something that's buried right it's buried it's buried out of sign and it's below my conscious radar right so it's at the back I you know I think of the back of the brain

[00:42:00] for that right but other people say now right well no it's it's at the front of the brain but it's just in the right hand side of the brain in the right hand side of the brain is the

[00:42:13] the left hand side of the brain is a language center so it's not that we're unaware of it it's the the fact that we can't put words to it and we can't put words to it because it is pre-words

[00:42:27] and that's you know you talked about the efficacy of talk therapy so there's something really big for me around that's playing for me at the moment around this subconscious actually means reverberating and I don't know why that's big for me but it it feels big for me like

[00:42:51] you know we're not I put something out on the I put something out on the the web on the facebook or something and it was something that came up with a year ago so we're not born believing

[00:43:06] that there's something wrong with us so it's a belief that we pick up along the way what if we could put it down and there was a mixture of response to that right

[00:43:20] um you know how can I how can I be with us well I'm just asking the question what if I'm not saying you should I'm not saying you should be i'm not saying you should

[00:43:37] i'm not saying we should i'm not saying we should not be able to we should be able to do that i'm not i'm not uh i'm not trauma blaming anybody yeah i'm just saying what if what if

[00:43:51] So that somehow speaks into this notion of fixed mindset versus growth mindset because that might speak to a person who might say, this is just how I am. Which means I have a grip, really tight grip

[00:44:11] on the past and I'm not willing to let go versus I can let go of that and I can grow from that. I don't have to let that rule who I am and that starts with believing that I can change.

[00:44:28] Yeah, and then go back again to this idea that isn't it easier to let go of a belief than it is to let go of a feeling. Especially if you and I are in a restaurant together and I get angry about

[00:44:55] the waiter ignoring me whatever. And I'm angry and then you say to me just let it go Simon. In that moment I probably like to find that kind of tough aren't I? No, you might say well but I'm justified in feeling this way because you have a different

[00:45:22] history because my reaction to the same event could be based on my history and it might not poke at a wound in me that I don't have but that you have. So that's why people will have a different

[00:45:33] reaction to the same event. But if you then try to convince me of your righteousness in the anger that you believe you're justified in having well it's okay to have two different reactions to the same situation because we're unique in our experiences that have been unique

[00:45:51] up until that point. And arguing for my anger isn't going to bring me to peace is it? Right, so that's what righteous indignation or justified anger or whatever which is I'm holding

[00:46:09] on to my anger because I feel like I was slighted or I feel like I was offended and that can get into this whole thing around the shadow right because that's an indication of stuff in

[00:46:24] the shadow that's getting poked at so I'm going to react to it and that's something that I probably need to look and say hey that's a gift my anger is always a gift for me to look within not to

[00:46:35] try to change the behavior of somebody else. Yeah, so that righteous anger piece can be something that gets in our way of the healing right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah because how tightly I hold

[00:46:49] on to that determines whether or not I can let go of it. Like am I am I loosening my grip? You know like and you might get into an exchange with somebody and somebody might be a little

[00:47:03] bit angry and then they're angry they might try to tell you what you should do and they might be crossing a boundary and a reaction could be hey loosen your grip a little bit like you

[00:47:14] know you're coming on strong I feel like maybe you're crossing the line once you loosen your grip on that a little bit and now you're shining a mirror onto somebody that they then have to

[00:47:26] look at their side of it and that's what that would be if you do that with gentleness and compassion it'll go well but if you hold it up and say hey you MF are like you know look in the mirror

[00:47:40] like what you're you know so part of that is in that instance you mentioned in the restaurant like how willing are you to hear a perspective of somebody else who's experiencing the same

[00:47:51] experience but having a different reaction. What else do you think has got in the way of your healing? Well there's so much in the subconscious that undoubtedly you're walking through life you think you're doing okay and then all of a sudden something happens and then automatically you're

[00:48:15] you're in it so you're like oh okay there's more to do so I just think it's not a straight path it's a winding road and recognizing that that I'm always looking for the you know the gifts

[00:48:30] of experience that bring up things that need to be dealt with it's a journey it's a marathon it's all those metaphors of the long haul the other thing I heard the other day is it's a slow cooker not

[00:48:44] a blender right you know these aren't fast processes and so if I take the slow cooker approach things happen but I'm on a upward trajectory it's just not straight so for me relationships

[00:49:00] are gifts to show all the things I still have to do you know whether it's relationships with my children relationships with an ex-spouse relationships with current partner and relationships in the workplace and all those types of things relationships and interacting

[00:49:22] with people is the true way to determine where am I at in this process yeah do you have this this term rumble strips do you just the word rumble strips mean anything to you yeah yeah

[00:49:38] yeah like the barriers it's like the barrier at the side of the road that keeps us yep buried by the road or something to signal a big turn in the road or something that they might put

[00:49:47] there yeah yeah so in context of what we're talking about can you elaborate on how you've heard that used in in this space yeah the the rumble strips so the the anger is that

[00:50:04] the anger is a rumble strip but I prefer I actually prefer your metaphor you've you've said that anger is a teacher and and you've said relationships give us gifts so if we could say

[00:50:24] you know what's his name gabo marty has the wisdom of trauma what if we could have the gift of trauma yeah and you know there's big t's little t's and I just think that everybody

[00:50:42] has had some form of adverse events in their life that has left the imprints and you can see it in the interactions with people you can see it when there's a reaction from somebody to a circumstance that's a little bit bigger than what the circumstance seems to be

[00:51:02] called for and here's like one of the biggest things that I had revelation on was the notion of childhood emotion and neglect and there's a an author of a book her name's joe nice web

[00:51:15] and she wrote a book called running on empty and this was like when you would talk to someone say hey well my childhood was fine I think everything was fine and yet you ask well tell me more

[00:51:27] well my parents got divorced but they you know they still loved me and you know you had all these other incidents you say well childhood emotional neglect is not about what happened

[00:51:38] as much as what didn't happen so part of it is to have clarity of like when you say fine but yet you had these different types of challenges it would be really challenging for you or any of

[00:51:54] us to come out of those types of circumstances without some imprint of trauma big t trauma small t trauma the complex stuff becomes more like that veiny stuff that runs through the soil

[00:52:10] because it's like it's not really significant but it's omnipresent and so for me so much of it is to just say how do I understand my past better and how do I dig below the surface like a little

[00:52:27] bit it's like an archaeological project where you just kind of look at for all those hidden artifacts and to then have kind of self compassion and to have compassion for others to recognize that

[00:52:44] when I saw my adoptive parents as something other than my parents and I saw them as humans that had their own circumstances my whole perspective on my childhood shifted and changed and as I've gotten to understand the history of my biological parents my whole perspective on

[00:53:07] their circumstance has shifted to allow me to see all of it in a way that I don't hold so much anger and resentment I say they all did the best they could at the time with what they had

[00:53:22] yeah I heard somebody say it's never too late for a totally new childhood yeah and that's what you seem to be summing up right and not everybody involved in the dynamics of my journey is on that page

[00:53:50] right I have a I had a reunion with the biological mother that went through that honeymoon phase that then ended with a secondary rejection and basically closing the door to any further relationship and four years later I get introduced through ancestry to her brother my uncle

[00:54:23] just this year and now I have a relationship with him and I now understand her life way more clearly than I did in the interactions that I had with her and I met her prior to even reading

[00:54:40] the the primal wound which is unfortunate because I just didn't understand the dynamics wasn't ready for what I was faced with and it was probably a very predictable ending as a result of my

[00:54:53] being naive about that so not everybody's on the same page with looking back and saying hey we are all still here we're sorry about the way things happen but we do have now

[00:55:07] if we choose to embrace what we have in front of us yeah it's great stuff Tim really great stuff really great stuff you're like they you really you really struck me with your humility

[00:55:23] the first conversation we had and it's coming across really loud and strong like this one you know the humility and curiosity and even evenness right there's an evenness of grounding

[00:55:35] and it it's it's great I love it absolutely love it oh thank you I don't think it's anything through being humbled and recognizing what I was holding on so tightly to which was a lot of my own

[00:55:52] righteous anger and so it's a loosening of the grip acknowledging my own I hurt people right so my behavior hurt different people in my life because I hadn't had the clarity consciously of the wounds that I had so I'm walking around basically like with a loaded gun

[00:56:13] of trauma trying to shoot it all around trying to protect myself and as a result there's casualties and so part of that humility is to say how do I soften how do I accept things and how do I

[00:56:28] then ask for forgiveness from others who unfortunately you know we're we're on the receiving end of some things that that maybe hurt them and you know that's the gift of restoration and healing and continuing to submit to love compassion receiving all of the these things that are gifts

[00:56:53] that that they're all available to us and and I was closed off to a lot of this so a lot of this is like that last five years this last five years of my life has been where most of the deep

[00:57:06] healing and embracing all this and really putting down the shields of armor putting down all that anger and allowing the softening of my disposition and recognizing humility letting go of pride

[00:57:24] and a lot of things that say okay you're a you're a easier person to get along with now in a lot of ways because you have put down all of the weapons yeah wow it's anything else you'd like to share that I've not asked you about him

[00:57:44] well I it's been a pleasure to have a chance to talk with you and again um what is great for the adopted community is the kind of work that you're doing to to have the ability

[00:58:02] to go into the repository of interviews that you've conducted and hear things that help me personally and I'm sure others uh understand their own story right that's the power of telling stories and so like one of the things that that certainly has been important to me is

[00:58:19] how do I find those ways those channels of sharing my own story because just as many stories that have been shared there's so many others that aren't in the healing process that

[00:58:33] are stuck in the what I would call the darkness and struggling you know uh there's an over representation of adoptees or people who've had lots of significant trauma in addiction clinics and you know things like that and so the power of telling stories the power of sharing what's

[00:58:55] available to anybody if they loosen the grip on those hurts because we all have them so the community you've established through what you're doing is amazing and I'm I'm happy to have found it I'm happy to have made this connection and you know I think for me

[00:59:12] finding my purpose is now the next part of my journey here and it is to kind of help other people who aren't at the same part of their journey as I am and so like like you giving back

[00:59:26] to this community is pretty important yeah beautiful beautiful thanks listeners and if people want to get in touch with you what should they do yeah so uh I'm starting uh I have a website called prodigal pathways dot com I'm starting to do some blogging there um and uh

[00:59:50] they can reach me on that website and um I'm going through a life coaching course right now taking all of what I've learned and looking at ways in which I can get into coaching and consulting to

[01:00:03] kind of help others prodigal pathways dot com is a place uh that's just getting off the ground and um that's where I'm gonna start posting more doing some more blogging and uh I've got a

[01:00:16] book outline and so I'm working on that as well so unlike some other guests that have already done those things I'm in the path of kind of putting all this together and saying how do I put all this

[01:00:26] to gather in a meaningful way that could be a resource for people. Fantastic and there's links to the website in the show notes listeners if you're doing like ideally when I'm listening to

[01:00:37] podcasts I'm driving or I'm walking the dog I don't have a pen handy so or ironing right um I like to say that uh as some kind of domestic god right that's the only thing I ever do around the house is

[01:00:50] sometimes a bit of money so um thanks Tim thanks listeners and we'll speak to you very soon take care bye