Walking Each Other Home With Chasity Galyon

[00:00:02] Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Thriving Adoptees Podcast. Today I'm delighted to be joined by Chasity, Chasity Galyon. Looking forward to our conversation today, Chasity. Yes, me too. Yeah, so, Thriving, Thriving Adoptees, what comes to mind when you hear this, Chasity?

[00:00:24] Well, for me personally, and I think it very much ties into the theme of adoption, but for me to thrive, I need to know that I'm number one safe and that I'm loved. And when I am feeling safe and loved, then I'm more likely to show up authentically in my relationships.

[00:00:47] And so I think that's true for many people, if not all. I don't want to blanket it, but I would think most people would feel the same. Yeah. Well, you are safe. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to hold that for you for the next hour. I appreciate that. Okay. And I know you're not really worried that I wasn't going to do that. No. Yeah.

[00:01:12] Right. You weren't expecting people, listeners, if you haven't, if you haven't met me or if you haven't been on the show, I always meet, pretty much always meet guests before. 99% of the time I've met guests before.

[00:01:28] So if they show up for when we agree the second conversation for the podcast, then presumably they have felt some degree of safety with me during the first one. Right. I have had occasions. I haven't had occasions on which people have not have not gone through with it.

[00:01:55] I think one occasion, a conscious decision. And, but as, as we talk, I think about a conversation I had with a fellow adoptee about probably four years ago. And we met on Facebook, I think, and said, should we have a chat on Zoom? Mm hmm. So I met her on Zoom and I said, she's in the UK.

[00:02:25] I said, so, so where are you? She said, well, I'm in, I'm in the northwest of England. Right. So I'm in the northeast of England. Uh, so I said, where, but I was, I was adopted from the northwest. So I'm asking, I asked her where. Um, and she said something like, uh, I don't think it's appropriate for me to share that. Okay. So clearly she didn't, she didn't feel that. Yeah.

[00:02:54] Feel that safe. Yeah. Well, vulnerability is a hard thing. I think we go through our life, you know, with, um, our, our egos want to protect. And so, um, depending on our experiences in life, we may have had to have a high degree of self protection. Um, and, and sometimes our emotions, you know, we don't feel safe with our own emotions.

[00:03:18] And so, you know, things like that can open up things that we've been holding very closely. And sometimes we're just not ready. Yeah. Well, what does it, what does ego mean to you? Um, I do think it is a, a self protective measure. Um, and I think there's, there's value in it to a degree.

[00:03:43] Um, but when we live there too much and too long, um, I think it can really hinder our ability to express our true self and, and hinder that ability for true connection with others. Um, and I think it's a self-perteam. Um, I think it's a place where we've been in the church and our parents, um, and, and we've been in the church and for whatever reason.

[00:04:07] Um, and, um, and I think that, um, and we, uh, that, um, you know, in the church, um, that, uh, there's a, uh, there's a sense of being. I think that that ego or those walls can go up to make sure we don't feel that again, understandably.

[00:04:40] My cup's overflowing now because this is my love to go to space. Yes. Well, I don't mind talking about the deep topics because I think when people are willing to have those conversations, it can just benefit other people so much. And it creates that element of safety with another person. When somebody goes first and says, I'm going to share or I'm going to be vulnerable with you, then it gives them the opportunity to do the same.

[00:05:11] And that's where you connect. Yes. Yeah. I'm not sure where to go from there. So I'll go back to the question that I was going to ask, but I've had a silly idea. So I'll just share that anyway. Right. Sure. So Chazity's in Knoxville, if I remember that. Correct.

[00:05:40] Yeah. And which is Tennessee. And I live in Hunsenghor, right? So the village that I live in, I'm not worried. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I feel sufficiently safe. I must be more specific about my location than the northeast of England. Right. So I'm in, I'm in Hunsenghor.

[00:06:05] So if anybody wants to check me out, you can go onto the website and I'm in a place called Hunsenghor. Sounds a bit funny, but yeah. H-U-N-S-I-N-G-O-R-E. So ego, to me, you talked about it being a self-protective measure.

[00:06:29] And that would indicate to me that it's about something that we do rather than something that we are. Does that make any sense? No. Yes. Not completely, no. Yeah. That's, that's next level. Yeah.

[00:06:59] Obviously our personality is a part of who we are, like our ego, but it's shaped by our experiences in some regard. And I think it's somewhat malleable.

[00:07:18] I think that growth and self-awareness can lead us to a place where our ego isn't dominating. Because I do feel like it is somewhat of a mask. But yeah, yeah. Something that we do versus who we are.

[00:07:47] That's deeply philosophical. And I love that. Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Me too. To bring you back up a little notch before we go drop deeper. I heard where the word persona and persona and mask came from last week. Oh, wow. Okay.

[00:08:16] It was, I presume it was on a podcast. A podcast and audio book. And it's, it's, it's, it's Latin. It's, it's Latin. It's Roman. It's from, from that. But the, the, the mask was about. In days before Hollywood movies and special effects. And, and, and British movies as well, right?

[00:08:46] Pinewood and Universe. Where they make the James Bond stuff. Which is now owned by Amazon, isn't it? Is it? Probably. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. So what, what they did is the, the, the, the, the actor would put a mask on their face to show the character that they were there, that they were then playing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're nodding like you've heard this too, right?

[00:09:15] No, it just makes total sense. Makes sense, yeah. Yeah. And even plugging it into what we were saying previously. Yeah. Yeah. So putting a mask on is a doing thing, isn't it? Mm-hmm. It is. It is. Yeah. It's a doing thing, not a being thing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not the authentic self. It's the, it's the wall.

[00:09:43] It's what we put around us to protect ourselves or put in front of us to present ourselves as acceptable to someone else or, or to protect. Yeah. Which I think presenting ourself as acceptable to someone else and what we think that may be is protecting ourselves in many ways. Yeah.

[00:10:04] But, but yeah, but to thrive, to feel, you know, I think there's this uneasy feeling that I have when I'm not being true to who I am. And it can wear me down and exhaust me very quickly because it takes a lot of energy and effort to put on a mask and to put up walls and to hold those walls up versus being who you are. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:33] So, yeah. Because we talk about the ego like it's an identity, like it's a, like it's a thing. We talk about it like it's a noun rather than a verb. Yeah, I agree. Yes. It's definitely something to consider.

[00:10:51] So, I mean, it is the noun, is the ego and the mask, are they, are they the same or to what extent are they different, similar to, to you in your opinion? I think there's, you know, it probably can begin as a verb, but maybe transforms to a noun over time.

[00:11:16] Because I think we can get lost in that and lose the truth of our identity and who we are when we integrate that ego into the self. And then it can become a part of our identity. You know, maybe initially, I don't know, maybe it initially does. I mean, you think about, are you familiar with the actor Jim Carrey? Yeah.

[00:11:40] Okay, so I've heard him talk before and he even talks about his Jim Carrey as himself. It was a character he played, you know, and I think that that character he played became himself until he started to grow and release some of that. But he just popped in my head as somebody that has talked about that somewhat.

[00:12:06] But I do think that, yes, that those protections that we put into play, those are things that we do. But then they can become who we are. If we have to play that role too much and too long. And it takes a lot of self-awareness and probably a lot of work to get through that.

[00:12:31] Because it's so much easier to look through the eyes of a mask at somebody else than to look behind our own mask and acknowledge those things that we have put into place that maybe helped us for a time. But as we grow and as we want to connect with others, sometimes those things don't continue to help us. You know, a child in a situation that's not safe learns how to behave in that situation to protect themselves.

[00:13:00] And then as they get older, they carry that into those relationships with other people. And they're still playing that role to protect themselves, but it doesn't serve them anymore. And so, you know, it may be that's holding people at a distance or, you know, not feeling the freedom to try to connect or be real with somebody. You know, everybody's situation is different, even in the realm of adoption.

[00:13:31] You know, there's science even behind what we're talking about beyond the philosophy and the psychology of it, but even just connection and how that is created, you know, at very special, you know, sensitive developmental periods in our life.

[00:13:50] And so things like that can be put into us so early beyond our formal ability to be conscious of it, you know, and so it kind of does become who we are to an extent. I don't know if that makes sense or. I think it's beautiful. Yeah, I'm just giving you space. Yeah. I think it's beautiful. I tend to see the world a bit black and white, a bit, many oars, not ants.

[00:14:20] Right. Right. Do you get what I mean? So I said, is, I said to you probably, is it, is it a verb or is it a noun? Is it something, well, is it a verb? Yeah. Is it a verb? Yes. And yes. And so I may, I kind of introduced, because I do have an opinion on that.

[00:14:49] And I do think it is a, I do think it is a verb. However, you've given me, you've taken me to a next level because I think that both maybe, I think you're right. I think it does. I think what is, when you start talking about behaviour, you talked about barriers, then that made safe,

[00:15:19] that made it clear to me that what starts off as an activity becomes an identity. And we forget, well, we forget, we don't, we don't spot the tipping point.

[00:15:43] A quote that sticks with me from a coach guy who's very influential to me, he said, it's hard to see the picture when we're in the frame. And you've alluded to, well, not, you've used the word self-awareness at least two occasions I can remember in the last 20 minutes.

[00:16:06] And so we don't notice, I guess I'm drawing that out as a, I'm drawing that out as a, an inflection, a learning point for me. That, yeah, I don't remember that occurring. I don't remember the moment when the activity became an identity. It's very opaque.

[00:16:34] It's very hot. It's not, it's, it's not in my memory. Right. I don't recall it. I don't have words. I don't have a, yeah, I don't have a words for it before. Right. I think that's all of us. We have that, you know, we have our blind spots and then we have, like you say,

[00:16:59] and not that I would consider that a blind spot per se, but I think that's why we need at least to be willing to connect with others so that we can grow. And I think that's a lifelong thing.

[00:17:22] And it starts from the very beginning with that safety and love that we receive from the moment we enter this world or don't receive. Yeah. So, and, and those are those moments we don't remember, but it, it gets buried into our consciousness or our subconsciousness rather.

[00:17:45] Um, and it drives the bus sometimes, um, you know, uh, but I don't know. It's, it's, uh, you know, I work in adoption. Um, I'm an adoptive mom and I experienced adoption as a child, not in the fullest sense that some people go through, but my stepfather adopted me when I was in preschool.

[00:18:13] Um, and so I, I do have some of those experiences of not knowing my father and, um, you know, it's very clear to me that those things played into who I am, who I've become, but they're not necessarily who. I guess I should back up, I guess who I am has been shaped somewhat by those things, but it's not the fullness of who I am.

[00:18:41] Um, it's something that happened in my life that had an impact on me. Um, but I think that even people who have not experienced adoption or don't even have any connection to adoption experience these things as well, to an extent. Um, I think it's the experience of life and relationships. You know, we're going to have, um, moments where we don't feel safe and loved at different points in our life.

[00:19:09] Um, we're going to have broken attachments, heartbreak and those different things. And, um, but I think that, um, the best thing that we can do for others, for, for children, um, is to get that love and safety very early during those sensitive periods. Um, so that they're less likely to use the ego as a self-protective measure. Um, we're all going to do it.

[00:19:37] I mean, all of us, um, have that. That's a part of, of what we do. And, um, but, um, I know even in working with adoptive families, a lot of them think, I'm just going to love this child and everything will be fine.

[00:19:56] Um, but something I've been exploring lately too, in that regard is, yes, you have to have that as a foundation in all of your relationships, you know, bringing that safety and love to other people. But we also have to consider their receptiveness of it and how they perceive it.

[00:20:17] Because I can bring all the love in the world to someone, but that doesn't mean that they're going to feel loved or feel safe. And so, um, their experiences are going to, um, help paint what that's going to look like. Um, so. I've heard the ego defined as the separate self.

[00:20:49] Yeah. That's a good way to put it. It's kind of like that big brother that you can bring with you wherever you go. The big brother that can, uh, fight off the bullies if you need them to. Yeah.

[00:21:04] And I was thinking about how you, how you, how I connect, how I express adoption stuff to a, to a non adoptee or maybe somebody who hasn't got, who isn't, you know, a non adoptee who doesn't work in there.

[00:21:38] Mm hmm. And I, I was thinking about bullying actually. And I was thinking about that, that sense of being othered. Mm hmm. Most kids get bullied when they get, so I got bullied for having buck teeth. Mm hmm. Like rabbit teeth.

[00:22:04] I got bullied for going to a different school to everybody else and being a posh school. Yeah. I got bullied for, uh, not drinking tea, which I, I'm sure to an American would sound sorry. I love tea.

[00:22:23] Um, but you know, if, if you, if you, most people have been bullied and I, I guess that, that gives a felt sense of being separate. Mm hmm. That's, uh, and, and, and, and that is the fragility of the ego.

[00:22:52] You know, use the word vulnerable earlier on. That's, that's a, that's a, a vulnerable, fragile feeling that most people, people have been there. Yeah. Most people have been there. And at, at the other end of the spectrum, we've got that, with, with all that felt, with, with, we've all felt the felt sense of oneness. Mm hmm. Whether that's, uh, well, why don't, why don't, why don't ask you that?

[00:23:22] If, if you, does, do any, uh, do any examples come to your mind when you, when I, when I ask you the question? So when, when do you feel at one with others? When, when do you, when do you, when do you sense oneness rather than separation? When do you separate? When do you feel oneness? Wow. Wow.

[00:23:47] Um, you know, I've spent a good chunk of my life feeling that other, um, for one reason or another. Um, but feeling that oneness. It, it, it just, it, it feels like acceptance. Um, and it's not, it, it feels more rare than common.

[00:24:14] Um, and I don't know if that's typical or if that's me, but, um, it's, it's hard. I think it's typical. I think it's typical. You think it's typical? Yeah. I hope so. Um, but yeah, I mean, to feel that oneness, I, it's, it's a rare, it's a rare thing. Yeah. Um, does an example come to mind? Um, granddaughter.

[00:24:40] Um, granddaughter.

[00:25:06] Um, she's very accepting of me and I can talk freely. I don't have to scream my words with her. Um, I don't have to feel like she's going to misunderstand me or judge me for how I'm feeling. Um, you know, that feels very much like that, that oneness in those relationships.

[00:25:30] Um, but again, it's, I feel like I can be myself and I can be vulnerable and just true to who I am. Um, more real and less ego. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do any group settings come to mind? Group settings. Hmm. Hmm. Group settings are harder.

[00:25:55] Um, I tend to introvert in group settings unless I feel, um, that I'm within something that involves an area of expertise. Maybe I might feel a little more one in that regard, but you put me in a group setting with a bunch of people I don't know. And, and I'm definitely more inclined to go into my shell.

[00:26:23] Um, I, I detest situations like that because again, it creates that uneasiness because I have such a strong desire to be authentic in who I am, but don't always feel like I can be because of the hierarchies and the social dynamics that are at play that I just, I just have such a disdain for. Yeah. I, I, I, I feel that. I feel that too.

[00:26:52] Um, I was going to ask you, do you go to church? Church, go on. Um, yeah, yes and no. I, um, I do. I am a believer. I am a person of faith, um, deeply spiritual. Um, and, but I also find that aspect of church to be hard.

[00:27:15] And so, um, I find myself often, you know, watching at home, you know, with my husband and kids, um, and then I have guilt sometimes about that because there's that religious aspect of that, that brings the guilt. You should be at church.

[00:27:37] Um, but, um, you know, my faith, obviously, um, it doesn't stop if I'm not in church, obviously it can be enhanced by going to church. And if the goal is to worship God and not socialize, then, you know, mission accomplished, but socializing in that arena, it is hard. So. Yeah.

[00:28:03] Cause I was, I was making some notes for a presentation I'm doing and I was, and I was trying to come up with felt, felt, felt sense of oneness. Like situations. Mm-hmm. And all, all of them involved music. Mm-hmm. Um, so for, for me, I, and all of them, yeah, all involved, involved music and specifically they are all involved singing.

[00:28:33] Right. That makes sense. So, you know, I, I, I've, uh, I've, I've, I've heard who was it? Was it, was it, was it Beyonce or was it somebody did the star spangled banner before the Superbowl? She, um, I don't know. It, it, but when I hear it, I'm, I'm not American. That sends shivers down my spine. Right. Yeah.

[00:29:03] I have the same feeling, but listening to the Scottish national anthem before a Scottish rugby match. I'm not Scottish either. Yeah. I, I, I know that people touch that, that space singing in the congregation at a choir. So it's not, you know, an interesting point that you made about the socialization, right? This isn't the socialization part of church. This is the hymn part of church.

[00:29:37] Mm-hmm. Where everybody is, is one, you know, there's the, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's a felt sense of, of, of oneness. Mm-hmm. And, uh, separation has gone out of the window. Yeah. Yeah. And when you said, uh, I haven't had many, I think you said, uh, not many ideas come, come

[00:30:07] to mind. Not many examples came to your mind. Uh, is that, is that unusual or is that human? And, you know, I said, yeah, that's human because when I think about it, not, you know, I have to think about it for them to come to my mind. And when they do come to my mind, they really stand out. Mm-hmm. They, they stand out. There's an emotional charge. Yeah.

[00:30:34] That, that goes with those moments. Right. Where we fall into our, our sense of oneness. Mm-hmm. And authenticity to use your word, I think. I think authenticity. And it, it, it, it's almost like a revelation. Mm-hmm.

[00:31:05] And I'm thinking there's a, there's a chapter of the Bible called Revelations and I don't know what it is. Right. There is. Yes. Yeah, because I went to, I went to a school where we, we, we listened to a reading every morning. Mm-hmm. We sang a hymn every morning. Nobody was particularly invested in it, but it was the done thing. That's what we did. I didn't feel a felt sense of oneness. Mm-hmm. Then I don't think really. Right. Maybe I wasn't a teacher.

[00:31:34] Um, but the, the, the oneness, I believe that the oneness is revealed. Really infrequently. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So most of the time it's the separation, the separation. Because we're all walking around protecting ourselves from everybody else. Yeah. I mean, I think that's our default. Um, and, and that's. It's our default. Okay. All right.

[00:32:04] Um, so, ah, gotcha. No. Um, uh, I think, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is for adults. I think it's our default. For adults. For sure. Yeah. So you know where I'm going with this one. Mm-hmm. You want to get ahead of me. I mean, obviously, there's lots of things that play into it. But, I mean, I think a lot of adults are walking around as wounded children.

[00:32:34] Um, you know, we, we get those wounds early. Um, and I think sometimes as children, we don't have the means to process it. We don't have, um, and I don't know if this is where you were going, but. You're way, way ahead of me. Oh, okay. I'm glad that I didn't open my trap and give myself something. This is way better. Oh. Well, that's sweet. That's a compliment, by the way. Oh, thank you. Make the compliment.

[00:33:02] Um, but yeah, I mean, I think as adults, we're, we're, um, so many of us are still 10 years old and we're reacting to whatever that was that happened at 10 years old or two years old or whatever it may be. Um, because we can't, you know, when we were in those moments, we did not have the tools we needed, um, to manage whatever it was. And that's not our fault.

[00:33:32] You know, it's not our fault. It's, it's, it's like my son who came to me at four years old. He created these survival mechanisms, um, for what he went through. Um, and it was hard to deal with as an adult dealing with this child, but it, it wasn't his fault. Um, and so helping him have the tools to process what he's been through, um, while also managing

[00:34:00] the fact that his behaviors and what he's going through is now triggering what I didn't manage when I was a young child and I'm still carrying around as an adult. Um, you know, it's, it's a lot. It's, um, I don't think there's a straight answer or cure to fix it all because of, because of our humanity.

[00:34:29] Um, and I hate to say that because I mean, I guess I could never fully envision a utopia apart from, you know, my belief spiritually because humans are rough. They do a lot of things. We do a lot of damage to each other and, um, intentionally or unintentionally, mostly unintentionally. I like to believe, um, but nevertheless, there's consequences to all of it. And there's a lot of pain that people carry.

[00:34:59] Um, and some of that's primal and deep and subconscious. And some of it we have very clear memories of like the bullying or, or whatever it may be. Um, and a lot of times we walk around and we hold that in and we carry it by ourself. And so that barrier keeps us, you know, that, that feeling that we are other and alone and it's just ours to bear and carry. I think that does keep us from thriving.

[00:35:28] It does keep us from moving forward. So. You used the word malleable early, which I really love. Uh, and I'm wondering, you, whether a metaphor, does a metaphor come to your, I haven't got one on my sleeve. Right. So some, sometimes I do ask a question that I've got an answer for this time.

[00:35:59] No clue. Right. To be transparent. Sure. Um, does a metaphor come to mind for malleability in, in the context that you've just been describing?

[00:36:18] I think there's a lot of barriers to it, but, um, one, I think one of the first steps is it's real easy to blame people for being people.

[00:36:48] And when our focus is on blaming that person, um, for whatever the wound was that occurred, I think that can keep us stuck and prevent that malleability from occurring. I think it's when we release the blame and recognize that we actually have some control

[00:37:20] over how we're thinking about something, how we can respond and how we can move forward. Then I think that malleability can occur because it's real easy to get stuck in, um, different mentalities, whether it's, I'm a victim of this, or this is my fault, or this is their fault or whatever it may be.

[00:37:47] And we just create these, uh, I guess, negative pathways in our brain that we get stuck in. Um, but, and it can be painful to acknowledge those things that help get us unstuck. And I think that's, that's the hard thing because, um, we hold on, we hold on to those, those things because they're, they're our big brother protecting us.

[00:38:15] Um, but in the end, they're not really, um, yeah. Um, I meant to ask you about that big brother thing, uh, the big brother. Uh, uh, medical, the thing that you said, because it, um, so much of, well, we've been talking 40 minutes or so now, right?

[00:38:42] I think that's the only thing that's, that has got jarred. That's probably too big a word, but it's the, it's the only thing I thought, oh, I don't get that. Everything we've had, we've expressed some slightly different opinions and we've largely been of one heart.

[00:39:08] I believe, um, we have different opinions, but, and I've understood, hopefully I've, hopefully you've understood what I've said. Cause I feel like I've understood what you said apart from that little thing about the big brother. So can you, can you share a little bit more about in case it's not just me?

[00:39:30] Well, that's probably a, maybe that's a little bit of a, a personal slip, um, that came out in conversation. So I'm the oldest in my family, always wish that I had a big brother. Um, didn't always feel protected by those. I should have been protected by. So I think that's probably where that comes from a little bit.

[00:39:57] So, you know, um, I create that, that part of my ego that, um, quite honestly, it's, it's my tendency is to jump in to protect others. And I do that much more easily than I do myself. Wow. Um, and, and it's, it's because I always wish that I had that person, that big brother,

[00:40:25] so to speak, um, that would be the protector that would be that protective. And so as I see the ego is that protective factor, it's kind of like that big brother standing in front of me saying, you're not gonna mess with her. So now it makes perfect sense. Gotcha. And it also in a kind of goose bumpy moment for me here, uh, what three and a half thousand

[00:40:53] miles away from you, but only a foot by, by the screen. It is that I did, uh, I did a bit of EFT. EFT. Uh, is that like a therapy? Yeah. Yeah. Um, tapping. Yes. EFT.

[00:41:23] Emotional freedom technique. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Right. Okay. So, uh, I interviewed a fellow adoptee, Daniel Godet last, last week and it's, she's been on the show like probably third, third or fourth time she's been on and we talked about EFT and I, I asked her afterwards, well, why don't we give it a go?

[00:41:49] Cause it, it, it, it is something that is far easier to experience than it is to talk about. Right. So somehow we've managed to talk about it, but it's above, it's more than, it's an experience rather than a conversation. And so I did it. She said, yeah, and I did it. And, and it was brilliant. And it, and it plays straight into this. Right.

[00:42:14] And it's about going big when we feel small. Wow. Wow. Going big. And, and, and for me, what was going on was, um, getting angry when I feel out of control. Wow.

[00:42:41] And the metaphor that she had for it was the puffer fish, right? It puffs itself up. Yeah. To make it, make it seem bigger. So the predators don't attack it. Right. Because they think it's bigger than it actually is.

[00:43:11] So that feels kind of huge. And isn't it interesting that the big insight came off the back of, uh, the, the, the, the big insight for me came off the back of the bit that I didn't understand about what you said. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, you know, I think, um, and it's, uh, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a little piece

[00:43:36] of self-awareness for myself that came out naturally in the conversation with you, because it's not something I've consciously, consciously broke down. Um, you know, other than talking with you today in that regard, you know, that big brother, um, ego, so to speak.

[00:43:56] Um, but it makes perfect sense because my life has been, um, kind of pulled in that direction to be a protector for vulnerable people. Um, so yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Have you, uh, have you come across, uh, IFS? No. What is that? It stands for internal family systems. Okay.

[00:44:25] Oh, I think I've heard of that. We may have mentioned that in our conversation. Maybe we did. Yeah. Previously. I mentioned it quite a lot on the, on the podcast. So apologies listeners, but I think it's, it's brilliant, you know, um, and, and the protector is one of the parts. Oh.

[00:44:53] So when, when, when, when it's, when you say the name internal family systems, it sounds like a therapy for a family and that's where it came from. Mm-hmm. And it's also something that you, we can look at just from ourselves because it's about the relationships between different parts of us.

[00:45:19] By different parts of us, it means the 10 year, you, you refer to the 10 year old part, right? It, it, it, so there's, there's a, um, there's a relationship between the 10 year old part and the 16 year old part. Mm-hmm. Or whatever. Or for me, there's a relationship between the five week old part, right? When I, when I handed over, like, place relinquished.

[00:45:45] Um, and then the, and then the 10 year old kid that got bullied for really badly bullied on, on scout camp. And then the, and then the 10 to 12, the nine to 12 year old kid that got bullied in for other stuff in different parts, right? So there's the, the different part, parts of us. But I'm pretty sure that one of the parts is called a project, a protector part. Yeah. That makes sense.

[00:46:10] Um, and the genius of the work is it's a psycho spiritual model. So you talk to your power being spiritual earlier on. What, what do you mean by spiritual? Um, well, I believe we're more than just flesh. I believe that we, we have a spirit. I believe that we were created.

[00:46:40] Um, we're created beings created for purpose, um, and community with others. Um, I believe that we were created to worship the creator. Um, not in a, um, dogmatic religious sense, but in a, um, you know, I believe that obviously the creator cares very deeply for us.

[00:47:05] Um, so yeah, I just, I don't feel like we can be divorced from that spiritual side of ourselves. I think that is our core, the reality of who we are, um, without the ego. Yeah. Without all of that. Oh. Yeah. Without the ego. Mm-hmm. I happened to look this up a couple of weeks ago. Um, and it ties in with the first thing that you said, actually. Mm-hmm.

[00:47:32] So, uh, spiritual, I think it said non-physical. Mm-hmm. So more than flesh. Right. Is another way of saying non-physical. Right. Ish. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Richard Schwartz, the, is the, the IFS guy, right? He, he talks about an uppercase S. Mm-hmm. Oh. Which would be the core. Mm-hmm.

[00:48:02] That you refer to. Mm-hmm. Without, uh, an, an ego. Mm-hmm. And he, he, he would say that, or he does try, does say that that core is, can't, can't be damaged. Ooh. Interesting. Do you agree with that? Or to what extent do you agree with it? Do you disagree with it? Tell me more about copy damaged.

[00:48:32] Can't, can't be damaged. Can't be damaged. Okay. Can't be damaged. Yes. Oh, our core can't be damaged. Oh, wow. I don't know. Wow. That's, um, hmm.

[00:48:56] I would have to delve into that more and, and hear more about why he says that or what his, his reasoning is for that, because I want to say, yes, I agree with that. But then there's an element of feeling that, that challenges it.

[00:49:26] But I also know that feelings are not always reality. So that's a, that's a bit of a, you've stumped me. I, I, I don't know. I don't know. I would have to have time to process that. Um, yeah. Does he say why? I mean, what his reason behind saying that?

[00:49:56] He, he, he doesn't go, he doesn't talk a lot about. He just lets us sit in that tension. He talks, he talks, he talks far more, he talks, he talks far more, um, about the parts that he does about the core. Okay. And I came up with a metaphor for this.

[00:50:24] So have you ever played Trivial Pursuit? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, you know that you get that little, what do you call that thing, that disc thing? I call it the pie piece. It looks like a pie. Yes. Yeah. But what's the circular thing? It's like a wheel almost. Yeah. Okay. The wheel. Right. Yeah. So, so the wheel is the core in my metaphor.

[00:50:53] This isn't Richard Schwartz's metaphor. This is mine. Okay. The, the, the, the wheel is the core. Okay. And the parts are what you call the cheese. Okay. Right. And according to my metaphor and my philosophy. Right. The trauma is in the parts. It's in the cheese. Mm-hmm. Not in the core, which is the wheel.

[00:51:23] Okay. That makes sense. And that's how I see trauma. So the ego. Right. The ego. All the cheese. All the cheeses. They're all ego. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. There's no ego. There's no ego in the wheel. Okay.

[00:51:51] And, and, and you said the core is without ego. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I'm saying the core is the wheel. You're saying the core is without ego. I'm agreeing with you. I'm, and in my, I'm understanding. I'm saying that the cheese is without ego. Sorry. Got it wrong. The, the, the circle. Yes. The circle is without ego.

[00:52:21] Right. I'm with you. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is why we can heal. And we can. Well, heal. Well, I, I, what, what, how would you express what, what would healing mean? Healing. I don't think it means that what happened didn't happen.

[00:52:47] It's not like we forget necessarily, or, you know, in our body, we. We get a laceration and we heal and there's a scar that we can see, but it's healed, but there's still a scar there. So healing means that. But there's more twist than our flash though, right? True. True. True. So, I mean, if it's, if it, if we're getting super, super deep and we're talking about our

[00:53:17] spiritual core and the ego is separate and what is just kind of put there, it's healing in that sense would be more of a deliverance or a release of whatever that is. It's, I don't know. It's developing in my mind as we talk. Yeah. And one of the first things that we're talking about was ego as behavior.

[00:53:47] Yeah. And I do think that we can release ourselves of, of elements of that ego and not carry it anymore. I do believe that. Cause you, the reason, the reason I said it was activity is because looking back on my notes, you said it was a self protective, self protective measure. Yes. Which to me is, is something that we do, not something that we are. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:18] So I guess it's like, at what point is it possible in this fleshly body to get to that true point of healing? That's the question, I guess. Like while we're in this body, while we're living as a human in this life, I don't know. I don't know. Is it possibly possible to be completely free from the ego and those things? I don't know.

[00:54:51] I don't know either. The mystery of life. Well, that is a mystery. Yeah. But I do know we can have more moments of felt oneness. Absolutely. Like, and if we have more moments of felt oneness, then we're going in the right direction. Yes.

[00:55:21] It's like a hot or warmer game. What is it? As a kid, you know, when you, when you're playing a hot or warmer game or something blind, somebody's blind, is it blind man's buff or something? Oh, I forgot about that game. Hot or warmer. Yeah. Warmer or colder. Yeah. Warmer or colder. Yes. Right. So more moments of, more moments of felt oneness to me is getting warmer. Yes.

[00:55:50] Whether there is an absolute point. I don't think. Yeah. I don't think there is. Well, it's like, have you heard that phrase? Like we're walking each other home. You know, we're the more that we can connect with others and create that sense of belonging and less of that other feeling. I think that can bring tremendous healing to people.

[00:56:17] And we've, we've been home for the last hour. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Yes. And it's, and it's finding those people who are willing to have those conversations because that's, that's my place of tension in this world is living on the surface, like in that shallow. Yeah.

[00:56:42] You know, it's, it's finding people who are willing to be, to swim in the deep end, to be real and authentic as, as, as they possibly can. And to, to bring a sense of safety and love to others so that they can do the same. It's, it's a gift. It's a gift that we can give to other people for sure.

[00:57:08] And can, and can be just a little drop of healing, you know, in those, in those moments for another person. So, yeah. It's good stuff. Thanks, Chazity. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, listeners. I've got, I was going to ask you, Chazity, sometimes do this, not, have you got an idea of

[00:57:38] what we could call this episode of the podcast? Hmm. Hmm. Um, I'm not sure. I don't know.

[00:58:07] I was just going to use the last thing. There is so much that just happened. I was just going with the last thing that you said. Okay. Walking each other home. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. I think that's great. Thanks, listeners. I hope you've enjoyed an hour of homeness. Yes. Home time.

[00:58:37] Thank you, Simon. This has been wonderful. I've loved it too. Thanks, listeners. We hope you've loved it too. Bye.